Daash Biflousi
The emphasis on the segregation law imposed on the universities in Kuwait amazes me. No, I do not 'support' the segregation; yet, I do not see it as THE only flaw with the universities in Kuwait. Basically, I am saying that it does not affect the learning process whatsoever. The whole thing about "etha ma yekhtal6on bel jam3a, ma radhom b yekhtal6on bel sheghel, bel soug.." etc, is none of my business. At the end of the day, whether I sit next to a girl or not in one of my courses does not affect my academic performance. Whether a girl sits next to a guy in some course does not make her all that more comfortable around men in the future and all that nonesense. Simply put, it does not make a difference when it comes to learning.
I had classes of both nature at KU (was in school when the law passed), and, writing this, I remember the hot Spanish exchange student sitting next to me in my SLA course back in the UK. Yeah, no difference.
Anyway, private universities and segregation. By law, do they have to adhere to the current segregation thingy? Or does the fact that the university is 'private' defies the law itself? Then again, it is on "Kuwaiti soil" i.e. within the jurisdiction of il fa6a7el. This question is directed to the specialists who know what's up.
Personally, and since I made it obvious that I think it does not make a difference (la yesawy il jam3a a7san wala aswa'); I think that dam ena el naas dasha beflous'ha, ehy tekon san3a il qaraar.
However, in the case that it is proven (by law) that private universities are no different than KU in adhering to the specifications imposed (which I am assuming is the case); I would say gal3atkom. That's 'democracy' for you.
posted by Temetwir at
1:39 PM
24 Comments:
i'm not a specialist in this topic so madree what's the deal 3indekom.. bs i know in bahrain they contemplated the same thing. then they realized that they didn't have the resources to pull it off (not enough classes, teachers, etc)... so they decided on the status quo - for now.
By
MSB, at 7.1.06
msb u would be surprised.. KU doesnt have the resources neither
a lot of problems r created for all students in terms of finding the subject AND relevant time for their schedules.. as well as closed sections and full waiting lists
but, not ALL classes (when i graduated at least) were segregated.. some here or there were co
thing is however, would the law (even if not FULLY applied) be reached to PRIVATE univs?
By
Temetwir, at 7.1.06
i hate segregation..
it isn't always implemented in our university ;)
although they pressure us, we do not comply!
seriously, coming from a private coed school, i don't see whats the deal with segregation..
guys did not interfere with my elementary, middle school or high school studies; why should university be any different?
By
Baroque, at 7.1.06
i know i know..
JINX!
same time yet again!
By
Baroque, at 7.1.06
charisma yea, i come from a coed high school too so maybe that explains why it just doesnt make a difference; and hence, i dont understand what the fuss is all about
the whole thing abt "lazem el banat wel shabab yekhtal6on" is just plain stupid.. shda3wa mo shayfeen ahalhom? mo 3arfeen shel qissa mn awal?
but yeah, i dont see it being fully implemented in any university anytime soon simply becoz of the lack of resources
but, i take it ur in a private univ and therefore it IS the case that priv. univs should also have seg. classes? chairz :)
By
Temetwir, at 7.1.06
I'm disappointed to read that the KU didn't take enough measures to ensure before implementing the segregation-thing, so that students wouldn’t face any troubles, in terms of shortage of teachers, long waiting list etc. I actually thought they did....
I don't know what to think of the segregation thing to be honest. I kinda understand their argument and were it's coming from, to a certain extend, but I sure do understand yours (and Charisma’s).
What about the private elementary/Intermediate schools btw, are they still mixed in Kuwait?
By
BitterSweet, at 7.1.06
el wazeer gal qarar man3 el e5tela6 eb yet6abaq 3ala el jam3at el 5a9a ba3ad!
By
Anonymous, at 7.1.06
bittersweet yeah, the parliament basically fucked KU and its students.. it was a pre-mature decision
sure, i understand where theyre coming from too.. but the thing is, it is not disrespectful nor 7aram nor whatever they wanna call it
some of the students will always be childish from both genders,, and the segregation doesnt reform that .. so thats another reason why i think it has no significance whatsoever
anyway, yes.. private schools can still be mixed.. theres i think 2 private girls-only schools..
again, i dont think that would be any different since (to me) the basic point is that u create the option for ppl to enroll their children to learn an american or a british system
--
anonymous ok thanks
By
Temetwir, at 7.1.06
ana agoool "khal yisani3 wizarta bas" (masra7iya intakhibo om 3ali).. sorry dont mean to be making fun or anything.. just wanted to say something and i really dont feel like expressing my feelings on this subject because I personally feel its degrading even explaining myself cause its just sooooo ridiculous .. excuse my spelling mistakes and grammar as i am half asleep and I just got back to friggin england and im confused and i dont really know why.. anyway.. temetwir its nice catching up reading all the entries u've posted over the holidays at once was fun yet very confusing.. anyway.. its nice being back and its nice reading about ur unique somewhat funny opinions on matters.. keep it up !!
By
Anonymous, at 7.1.06
to me ,, its just some bull sh*t they want to emphasize on students ,, i was in that stupied university (KU) and when i was about to graduate (for 4 courses) all of my classes were mixed ,,
ppl here just dont know how to commit thier selves to any order whatsoever.
im against segregation. i mean come on !!
By
Anonymous, at 8.1.06
irfs sure, mn baab 7efth o soun il bany adam el islam ye7ethek 3ala 3adam el ekhtelaa6 in the sense that "do not just get together with women for the sake of it" .. e.g. at a wedding?
the "after certain age" u speak of is senn el takleef i would assume
but that of course doesnt mean that men and women cant speak, cant socialize or work together even.. only idiots will have u believe that :)
it really saddens me when someone says "el islam menna3 hal shay", not knowing the "full story" .. i mean, sure, il islam does say something, but then each individual has to see WHY and WHAT is it exactly that is not acceptable in that given context, and what IS acceptable in another ..
the whole "extremism" is 2 faced, u can have a group which says "il islam mena3 hal shay.. khalas. period" <- lacks understanding..
and then u have the OTHER idiots who take the extremists word for it <-- lack understanding of BOTH: the original context, and the 'copied' one from the extremists
--
11thmuse, what ARE ur feelings on this subject? do tell
--
mishari that is true, el islam does emphasize on the minimizing of contact where not necessary .. but it is my belief that there is nothing wrong with a learning institution being mixed for one reason: it is a controlled environment
believe it or not, i would have myself believe that a bunch of guys and girls sitting in a cafe on a weekend is much more 'risky business' than having them in a classroom where the instructor would control the whole thing
u say "if u can segregate, then why not" .. and i agree, why not? what diff does it make?
the fact of the matter is however: KU can NOT segregate for lack of resources
since we ARE being specific, lets put everything on the table:
who here thinks that the majority of guys and girls at KU are "kafo ekhtelaa6" .. show of hands plz
By
Temetwir, at 8.1.06
bb u show no constructive arguments, no basis on which u stand, and no foundation on which u support ur opinion
that makes it just that: an opinion.. taken at face value, respected; but not to be regarded as something which enhances the discussion nor enriches it with ur take on things
start over by saying: im against segregation because.. so and so
By
Temetwir, at 8.1.06
mishari la la laaa, thats how it WAS done!
u enter, have 2 sides of the class: right/left
or sometimes some drs prefer, front/back
what we mean by segregation isnt to "un-mix the seating where a grl would sit next to a grl"
it's the fact that you have two DIFFERENT classes for EACH gender
in theory, and to have the EXACT results as u would have WITHOUT that kind of segregation u would need DOUBLE OF EVERYTHING
i.e. resources, most important being: the TIME, and to be able to offer the SAME subject at diff times for diff students' schedules, AS WELL as having actual members of staff .. not to mention physical classes
By
Temetwir, at 8.1.06
I gotta say, good point.
I see no difference either!! And I really want to know what KU univ. is getting at?! What's her point exactly of "el ekhtela6 mamnoo3"? =/
By
Nunu-San, at 8.1.06
Kuwaiti government is trying to seperate the private universities as well. At AUK they have a barrier dividing half the class, girls sit on one side and the guys on the other, this is only enforced when government officials come to check up on the university. But they are also pressuring the university to have seperated classes, its really messing everything up.
I'm against it for the obvious reason that every where else life isn't segregated. Segregation also makes being with the opposite gender seem like a weird issue, hence some Kuwaiti teenage attitude of "allaaah walad/bint!"
Seperating classrooms isn't going to solve the problem of "im8azal, o nas ikalmon.." Its pointless and very stupid!
By
Anonymous, at 8.1.06
well, i don't know why you
gov. or your univ. is practcing
segregation but let me tell you
that in the U.S and other wesrern
countries that some of us
seem to think the only right
and good things come out of , went
back to segregation again in
some schools and the result's
that kids did better after the
segregation specially girls.
please do google that.
By
Anonymous, at 8.1.06
sana, cultural differences do have a major factor in that result.
Temetwir, 76ait eedik 3ala el jar7 :/
The way I see it, is that some dude who needs psychiatric help in dealing with excessive shyness, cam up with this whole thing.
I knew a guy who supported the law and his argument was "aste7y banat y'6e7kon 3alai"!! I suppressed my laugh and tried to understand him, then tried to explain that the problem is in him, not the university ... stubborn dude :/
So, there's my theory on this ^_^
* Sorry for not interacting much .. been burried under projects and soon finals :/
By
MBH, at 8.1.06
nunu it's not a point KU wants to make.. it's a law imposed from parliament
i.e. a "democratic" vote was conducted and this is what happened
--
fimikl again, the kuwaiti "government" isnt "trying" to "do" anything..
the seating of girls on one side and boys on another is not what we are discussing..
u have to understand that segregation concerns the seperate classrooms, and not the seating itself
the attitude of "allah bint/walad" is not 'kuwaiti', so let us all stop throwing all our problems with that reasoning.. however, ur right .. segregation will not stop il te7erish
which is my other point, la7ad yegoli "el jame3i yegdar ye7terem ro7a" .. lena ma yegdar o being a "jame3i" doesnt make him anything special
--
sana yes, interesting point which i have JUST heard in the dowaneya, we were discussing private vs govt high schools and this statistic came up
however, u have to also understand that the univ is not really "segregated" .. corridors are still mixed and all that .. so basically, it is doing way more harm than good in restricting chances for better schedules and all for the students
besides, high schools and universities are on a whole diff level (at least they should be)
--
mbh yes, i have heard the whole "arya7 lena o a7san", which i think is very normal and it does make sense
some guys say it, some girls (which btw i heard 1st hand from them) said it to me too .. im not sure what all that is about, but i can imagine and can appreciate where they r coming from
maybe that is what Sana's statistic deals with? the 'no-pressure-to-impress' especially when given the AGES of the guys and girls that go to college at KU (the majority)
wemwafag inshala :)
By
Temetwir, at 8.1.06
The segregation between boys and girls/man and women in public life is my view not based in the Islam. Yes the Islam put emphasis on minimizing the cross-gender contact, Guthu annathar, keep heads down when looking to a person from the other gender etc. But, the Islam never ordered a total separation (in public life) between both genders.
In my view, if the Islam was in favour of total gender-segregation, we would have seen this in one of the most essential daily practice in a Muslim’s life, the prayer. Then we would have had mosques for women and mosques for men to endorse such segregation. In order to minimize the cross-gender contact while praying, men pray in front rows, while women pray in the rows behind these of men.
As for the new segregation rule being implemented at KU, to be honest, I didn’t follow the whole discussion in the parliament before implementing it, but I believe it has more of a cultural-foundation than an Islamic foundation. I think (in the short run?) it might have some advantage for some female students, whom parents would have refused the idea of allowing their daughters to attend a mixed college. But on the long run, it won’t have significant advantages for male and female students whatsoever. .It might have some negative effect though for both male and female students upon embarking the labour-market later on, but this depends on several other factors.
By
BitterSweet, at 8.1.06
I respect your point of view Hantorihanzo, however, If everyone teaches their children (sons or daughters) the correct way to behave in public, according to our traditions and religion, one needn't worry when not around with his/her kids, as I'm sure they will behave the proper way they were brought up with. Besides, if the kids want to behave a certain way, that the parents disapprove, they will eventually do it anyways when the parents aren’t around.
In my view it is a matter of giving them (boys or girls) the proper upbringing and trust as well.
By
BitterSweet, at 8.1.06
bittersweet allah sob7aanaha ohwa el khaaleg wel 3aalim (lelaah fi khalgehe she'oon)
so yes u r absolutely right, islam does offer guidelines as how to behave when near the opposite gender.. IMO that is great
some ppl, who act as if theyre super human or something, would argue that 'what? cant we control ourselves?' or something like 'what? u dont think im mature enough?'
is it just me, or does that sound like trying to prove something?
as for KU, i wish u were right but the fact of the matter is that the members of parliament have been trying to do it for quite some while (i think it first passed in 2001)
motivated by el islam and "3adat o taqaleed"
i can see where theyre coming from as ive made it clear.. but they still should really know that it does NOT make a difference because it is NOT how they make it sound
as for letting girls go to college, ur right.. i personally know a few guys like that with their sisters (theyre not badu, theyre not simple or anything) and i respect that knowing where that comes from
where it comes from, someone may ask? knowing how some of the guys and girls at KU behave :)
and am sorry man but i disagree, i dont think it will have a negative effect on both genders when they graduate and are in the workplace
- as for ur comment to Bo Fay, allow me to say that: while ur right, am sure u know that not everyone has been brought up in the same way
By
Temetwir, at 8.1.06
laialy that makes sense, and im sure a lot of ppl share that feeling
however, the fact of the matter is.. at KU or any other private university in q8, u will still come across guys everywhere.. parking lots, corridors, and everything .. EVEN before going to class (as the boys could be in the next room)
thats the thing, u wont feel comfortable around grls.. becoz guys will be everywhere
--
bo fay ur absolutely right abt the seating as an example, and im sure everyone has seen something similar.. ur not being em3agad in my opinion as i behave the same way
o 3ala goltek, ako wayed shabab o banat hal ayam faaskheen el 7ayya, lel asaf el shadeed, they are reasoning that with non other than the boring record of "being open minded and free"
but truth be told, the fact that some other shabab o banat are still true to who they are and what they are and WHERE they are makes it great .. becoz we all know how difficult it is in this day and time
7awalt agra ur last line, ely fahamta enek tabi tegool: "eldeera te7taaj thab6, laken mafee erjaal hal ayaam" ?
o sedagt, ako wayed nemaayen mn kela el 6arafain etshadid 3ala ur point :)
By
Temetwir, at 8.1.06
ok here goes.. Im not going to discuss everything because A. I dont have the time to spare and B. I dont think Im in the appropriate state of mind for several reasons.
Just for the record, I don't have much background or enough knowledge about the situation.
ok so, segregation is it good or bad?.. When I was younger I used to be against it because I always compared the people in my school to the people in public schools in terms of education, being able to deal with people from the other sex and so on. After reading many of the comments above I came to understand that yeah maybe girls would feel more comfortable around girls and guys would feel more comfortable around guys. Then again this is not the issue here.
I don't believe segregation should be enforced by law. Neither do I believe it should be optional cause that would take us to a completely different issue where the people who take co-ed classes would be classified as such and such and the others would be considered "em3aqideen". In other words, more stereotypes. Keep in mind this isn't the issue here either.
On another note, women and men should be able to behave like proper educated(being at uni and all) adults who could handle being in a classroom with people from the other sex and not get distracted in anyway.
Someone mentioned something about statistics proving students do better when segregated. It may be true but once again that is not the issue here.
Students at university are being educated so that they would be able to enter the work force later on in life. University does not only teach you whats written in text books. You also learn how to work with others and communicate with others.
For example, Im doing my masters and I had a group project. A few people in my course went to the head of the department and complained about having to be in groups and wanted to do the project individually. The department said no and their reason was that one of the first questions a company asks them before recruiting any of the graduates is how many group projects have they done. The moral of this story is, university is not only to learn whats written in text books its an institution that prepares you for life; and the world my friends is not segregated.
About being comfortable, you dont have to be 100% comfortable at university you are there to learn. Knowledge and experience is what you should gain from University. That includes being able to deal with people from the opposite sex.
As for sitting on separate sides of the classroom, thats ok. there is nothing wrong with that. And it is also ok for you to be shy from the person from the opposite sex who sits right next to you. There is nothing wrong with that either. You grow, and you learn how to manage your feelings and from that you'll learn how to deal with all human beings regardless of what race they are from or gender.
Chini tawalt-ha hehehe.. I still dont feel I covered all I have to say because it is too big of an issue to simply comment about but Im trying to get most of my thoughts out.
As for democracy, democracy is basically when the opinions or choices of the majority goes through. The majority might want universities to be segregated. If yes, then yep we've got democracy alright. But that is a completely different topic that I choose not to get into because I dont believe I have the right to cause I dont know **** about politics.
Good luck people, keep doing whatever it is you're doing and I'll get back to my work. Its funny how every time I try to get some work done I find something else to do. Oh and 3eedkom embarak..
By
Anonymous, at 9.1.06
bo fay el reyayeel mawjodeen.. lakenhom mo imga6een el saa7a ;)
the muse:
the whole "genders will be able to work together more easily .." etc is redundant
the guys which girls know while they were in school, in most cases, have known each other for more than 5 yrs already.. worked together as kids, and are virtually "colleagues" more than friends..
when u hit puberty, things change, but then again ull always have that friendship which is governed by the barrier of the environment: i.e. a school in q8
guys dont grow up to be "ra3y isloob ye3awer el galb" and girls dont grow up to be "3ady 3endaha te6la3 weya shabab wetro7 tetgada ma3ahom" just becoz they have studied in a private school.. any1 wanna spell prejudice!
- u say "being at uni and all" and therefore have that expectation that guys and grls should behave properly..
one question: did u study in KU? there AREEEE MANY who r mature enough whom behave accordingly to where theyre at .. but then again u have a LOT of ppl who dont
that said:
- founding ur argument on the basis that 'since those ppl have reached univ, they are mature enough to handle it' is flawed IMO and according to my observations
- im SURE that not one guy, and not one girl in the history of KU has 'sexually harassed' the other gender in the classroom .. WHICH is what the law concerns itself with: seperate the CLASSROOM
is it just me, or does that NOT solve the "problem" some MPs THINKKKK exists???
- statistics about academic behaviour SHOULD be an issue here .. sure, univ is all about 'preparing for work life' and pursuing careers.. but if i were to choose between a better academic potential, and being able to 'talk' (which btw i dont believe is the case) to the other gender.. then ill go for the academic performance
and thats ME saying that! me who believs all institutionalized education is worthless and a waste of time.. should tell ya somethin right there
- u dont learn how to act around the other gender from univ .. i think there are a LOT more valid places for that .. yes i am talking abt religion here BUT:
lets not kid ourselves, since we're discussing univs in Kuwait.. guys and girls have been 'mixing' for the past 18-20 yrs before they started going to college.. y3ni ma yat 3ala hathy
besides, we're not talking abt being able to charm each other into going out or 'takheth el ragam' .. we're talking abt just getting a piece of paper out and delegating responsibility
- democracy is a word that does not refer to an existing concept/ideal in the real world
making it none sense .. o ayamech sa3eeda
By
Temetwir, at 9.1.06
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