Demographic Proposal

Hypothesis: In Kuwait, for any sort of agreement and/or succseful communication between any given two individuals to occur, the standard deviation of age in any given case must be <2.

Otherwise, breakdown in communication is guaranteed to ensue.

Note, however, SD of the above hypothesis concerns itself exclusively in an instance of x initiating communication of any given nature with y; IFF:

y = x +/- 2

I.e., if x were to have a value of 20 (yrs), and has an interest in productive communication with y; then value of y must equal either 18 or 22.

Discuss. Taking a firm position of either challenging or supporting the hypothesis.

Note: Extra points are earned for making an argument of whether or not the equation is gender-specific.

Source: Temetwir, immatwir. 2005. Issues in Demography, A Case Study of the Kuwaiti Society. University of Life Press.


  • I love it.
    This made you sound very very very smart. (I’m not saying you aren’t)
    With a standard deviation of 2 you have about 95% of communication occurring.
    Only I don’t believe that age is an appropriate variable. You might want to consider other variables as education, religious background, life experience, topic discussed, and social class.
    I strongly believe that the equation is gender specific. This argument is based on my observations and personal experience.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 18.11.05  

  • Don't think so.

    I'm 25 and have a 15 years old cousin; I can have a three hours conversation with her and can't bear 15 minutes conversation with her 23 years old sister.

    By Blogger True Faith, at 18.11.05  

  • yeah i second true faith
    it depends on the person's character, sometimes you find a 16 years old boy to be mentally mature more than a 30 yeas old man !

    By Blogger Mother Courage, at 19.11.05  

  • I hate math, but from what I got I'll have to disagree, since that's what I do when I "think" I got what you say, but that really depends on the personality and the mentality of the person of whatever age, believe you me some supposedly mature people can make alot less sense than young adults do, true experienced story.

    so it depends.

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 19.11.05  

  • laialy how can u grade the variables u propose? not saying theyre irrelevant, but surely it cannot be a fixed value on a scale...
    and by gender-specific, u mean it varies whether the person fitting between that range is a male/female? or u mean both participants have to be of same gender?*

    true faith thats very normal, i can support ur evidence by adding that i have much more productive communication with my 17yr old cousin than his 21yr old brother (and im 21)**

    mother courage, thats not what the equation concerns itself with .. if that were to be true (that this is what the equation suggests) then it would mean that am saying that, for example, i (myself) cannot have friends who dont fit in that range..
    when infact, for every 100 guys i know, 80 would be over 25 easy (which makes us enter a whole new level of married or single etc)**

    spontan i think ur saying what mother courage said since u both agree on that maturity is not relative to age.. and i AGREE .. but then again thats not what the proposal is about :) **

    see next comment for notes:

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • *laialy touches upon the main idea, by mentioning "the topic discussed"..
    surely, one is not to expect that the proposal deals with topics like shopping, or football, or which movie one likes..
    rather (and laialy again strikes this in a diff way) discussions concerning religion or education (its importance for example?) or perhaps life and experience on, say, how to deal with friends

    **this has nothing to do with measuring maturity in relation to age. it does NOT.
    i do say quite clearly "agreement" and "productivity" in communication.. and not restrict it to 'whether or not u can be able to talk to someone who doesnt fit in that range' .. ofcourse not

    be that as it may, it must be mentioned that i myself am impartial to the proposal and i dont attend to either side - so do feel free by elaborating on ur examples

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • hathee awal mara adesh agra eb ur blog bs sej 3ajeeeeeeeeb and good luck :)

    By Blogger Tareqish, at 19.11.05  

  • so if I get this right, that means that for y to communicate with x+/-2 they need x in between but x alone cant go with y but y+/_2,65 = xz93.4 23%^$^ 0929^@$ usioas879 -ds7 WHAT!

    naaa just kidding, man I don't think so there are young people that amuse you by there thinking and the way they communicate and older people makes you want to kill your self for how stupid they are

    By Blogger Hattorihanzo, at 19.11.05  

  • tareqish hala wala, teslam oboy kelek nethar

    bo fay heheh adri walla adri thats what i was explaining to the ladies: its not abt whether or not someone who is younger than u is mature, its not that

    YANANTOONI tara :( lol

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • at the rate you are going temetwir...I am slowly contemplating having your brain disected just to understand how in heaven's name you come up with such fascinating ideas...did I ever ask you what you horoscope sign is...Einstien was a pisces...are you?

    By Blogger MissCosmoKuwait, at 19.11.05  

  • misscosmo
    heh thanks i guess :) .. and i just had to check what a pisces is .. and yeah i am
    note: i do NOT believe in horoscopes

    tara Einstein is enlisted as an alumni at the University of Life by the way, at the entrance of our univ ull find a large, platinum-engraved rectangle suspneded from the gates that reads one of his quotes:
    "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • Huh?!

    Sorry Temetwir you know shlon ana usually mo3jaba ib mowathee3ik, and the mathematical formula sounded impressive and all but to me this was pretty much just a bunch of prettily phrased hogwash* :/

    Gigi, bluntly

    *Unless I didn't get it and therefore please elaborate more on your hypothesis.

    By Blogger Gigi, at 19.11.05  

  • gigi
    depends what u got out from the post

    as i said, its not "my" hypothesis i dont stand by it

    anyway what did u "understand" from it?
    whats a hogwash btw

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • What I understood is that the formula is stating that in order for ANY SORT (your words) of agreement or successful communication to occur between two individuals in Kuwait, the difference in their age can't exceed 2 years.

    Moo gaayil shay wayid 9a3ib or 3ameeq ya3ni. The only reason I said "unless I didn't get it" was to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were making a more astute observation than I was able to catch. But somehow I think I really did get the formula as summarized above :/ If so, I think it's hogwash hehehe.

    However, kudos to you for making hogwash sound all impressive and smart-sounding. Now THAT's what I call an important University of Life lesson ;)

    Oh... Hogwash means... kharabee6 :D hehehehe

    Lataakilny 0:>

    Gigi, undeliciously

    By Blogger Gigi, at 19.11.05  

  • gigi la mani maklech and thats not really it, bs tell u what

    if ur not 19 or 23 ..
    the hypothesis will be proven to an extent

    so, ru between range of 19-23?

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • LooL

    Widdee widdee ajawob, but I don't want to limit my possible age range* to the narrow slot you've provided just to disprove your formula! ;)

    Besides! You're contradicting yourself :/
    When you say that (my understanding of the formula as outlined in my previous summary) isn't really it, then how would my possible deviation from the age-range prove that my disagreement is due to the formula's '2 Years Difference in Age' hypothesis? That's what my summary would have postulated and didn't you just SAY that that's "not really it"??

    Wa Ba3ad: since you also said that this is not your hypothesis and you don't stand by it, what would my disagreement have to do with proving or disproving the formula? =)

    Agoolik shay... dismiss those questions as rhetorical and instead, why don't you just explain what's "really it"?

    Gigi, pointedly

    P.S. I've got another great Einstein quote for ya:
    "Everthing should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
    And Tem, I accuse you of liking to make simple points sound as complicated as possible :D

    *ligharathin fee nafsi ya3qoob ;)

    By Blogger Gigi, at 19.11.05  

  • a- its not narrow, its relative.. and its not personal, its mathematics

    b- its not abt the 2yr age diff u mention. so yeah thats not really it

    c- ur not getting the idea is an example of breakdown in communication and hence proving the hypothesis

    d- ur agreement or disagreement has nothing to do with it like i explained to the other ladies and gents, its what examples u offer that count in backing up ur dis/agreement

    e- i dont stand by it becoz it hasnt been tested.. and ur proving it

    f- read above/above comments/post to get what it really is

    g- this is as simple as it gets, failure to apprehend could be attributed to ur age at this particular point and mine

    h- i think ur accusation is inverted

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • a) Narrow, Relative? Personal, Mathematics? Please provide specific examples so that I can be sure I know what you're talking about.

    b) Then why ask for my age range to prove/disprove the formula?

    c) I don't see a breakdown in communication, I see us as getting to the point. Seriously now, do you have a point other than "people who have more than 2 years of age between them can not have ANY SORT of agreement or successful communication (when it comes to talking about serious things like religion, education etc.)"? If there is anything more than that please state it without making us look for it among the comments or "inbetween the lines" :P

    d) You didn't understand what I meant when I said "since you also said that this is not your hypothesis and you don't stand by it, what would my disagreement have to do with proving or disproving the formula?"
    Never mind.
    When I said that I wasn't responding to your original post I was responding to your comment: "if ur not 19 or 23 ..
    the hypothesis will be proven to an extent"
    Again: Never mind.

    e) Ok YOU WIN! I'm 21, too >:[ Stanast? So my disagreement (or breakdown in communication, if you insist on seeing it that way) proves nothing. Sheesh..! Can't a girl keep anything to herself around here? ;P

    f) I did. I still think the formula kharboo6a :> But then again, you don't quite believe in it either, do you?

    g) I guess I've already revealed that that isn't the case :/

    h) How so?

    Gigi, sleepily

    By Blogger Gigi, at 19.11.05  

  • gigi
    then its the opposite, ur disproving it

    quit asking me if i "believe" in it since thats why am proposing in the 1st place, to see what happens.. and u can pretty much tell most of the ladies n gents dont stand by it (althu done so with lack of relevant backup) so if u must know, i think it doesnt work

    come to think of it, the whole idea chena lazem tekon bel maglob, ppl within will almsot never agree ... but then again its only YOU

    tara u talk so much im starting to have no idea how all this started and stop thinking abt "2yrs"

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • Hahahaha ok here's some backup for my stance as you've been asking us for:

    I totally disagree with this formula and think it's kharboo6a barboo6a ja3moo9a barbookha. (excuse me for that, I was feeling lyrical :> heehee)


    I've totally agreed with you on other topics you've discussed and have been of the opinion that kalaamik durar, platinum gold, Ferrari's, Porches, Gallardos, Alfa Romeos, Austin Martins and Marcialagos all rolled into one.

    So in a way I AM NEITHER PROVING NOR DISPROVING THE THEORY. Because it's such a silly theory that it doesn't even take into account the crucial inevitability that (OK OK regardless of age difference) X person will agree with Y on some things and disagree on other things.

    Ufff... it's such a weak wuss of a formula that it simply can't stand up to any sort of sustained analysis. Quite simply: it doesn't hold water.

    Gigi, firmly

    P.S. if I stop referring to the 2years point, shbuga min the whole hypothesis/post/equation??????????

    ..That people in Kuwait just can't have any sort of agreement or successful communication ANYway?!


    Now maybe THERE you've got yourself a point!


    Ok bas banaam :P

    Goodnight Temy-poo

    By Blogger Gigi, at 19.11.05  

  • gigi ma 3alaich zod o mashkora bas still ur not really grasping the idea.. this is getting old

    oh and tesbe7en 3ala khair

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 19.11.05  

  • why are mommy and daddy fighting!!

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 20.11.05  

  • spontan
    heh ya 7ebich lel tesheyish, mako ila kel khair so dont get any ideas

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 20.11.05  

  • Temetwir: zain i have a question:

    y = x +/- 2 does not necessarily mean y = x +/- 2 standard deviation.. standard deviation could have its own value, not always equal to 1. Therefore, technically, SD could equal 5 years! so +/- 2 SD = +/- 10 years!

    wila r u assuming SD = 1?

    By Blogger MSB, at 20.11.05  

  • msb not sure how sd would equal 1?

    but something tells me ur getting it.. PLEASE tell me ur thinking about collecting ages from a group, and then getting the SD, pick up 2 ppl at any given case and let x initiate with y and see if they agree/come to terms

    if not.. i give up i really really give up

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 20.11.05  

  • Temetwir: ok, let's start from scratch. 2 SD = 95% of the total population/people (starting from the mean and going outwards in both directions.)

    Assuming a mean of 20 yrs old, this is where my question of the value of 1 SD comes in. Going with your hypothesis, of mean = 20:
    1 SD = 19 - 21 yrs
    2 SD = 18 - 22 yrs
    3 SD = 17 - 23 yrs

    However, SD does NOT have to equal 1.

    For e.g, if SD were to equal 5, then 2 SD = 15 - 25 yrs!

    My response is as follows:

    There is no constant nor linear relationship between y & x. You can take gender as another variable as well and come up with any number of restrictions. However, the only way to quantify it, is to take a sample of the population and test this theory, coming up with your own equation (which will only be valid for the population you have selected.)

    :/ Did any of that make sense?

    By Blogger MSB, at 21.11.05  

  • Speaking about this post (yes temetwir I know I'm lurking through old posts and you probably don't want to reply but I just couldn't resist) mathematically, I would like to ponder a hypothetical situation.

    Let X and Y be discrete random variables representing person x and person y respectively. Based on your equation Y is a function of X and therefore directly dependent on X.

    However, for argument's sake let us assume that X and Y are independent variables, and that Z (which is the age difference) can be obtained from the following equality:
    X-Y = Z and that conversations between x and y can take place with the equally distributed probability mass functions given by fX(x) and fY(y) respectively.

    fX(x) as you suggested is translated to the following : 1 if X = Y + Z and 0 otherwise.

    fY(y) : 1 if |X - Z| = Y and 0 otherwise.

    *note that I kept in the variable Z because I want to prove that the probability of conversations be viable is greater when Z is a random variable rather than a set discrete number "2".

    fZ(z) is simply the P(X-Y< or= z).

    Now to create a feasible range for our variables we incorporate what we know about biology and these are the ranges : X~(3,60), Y (3,60)
    and finally, Z~(0,57)

    Now to be fair and to take society into context, fz(Z) is not equally distributed but exponentially distributed, with the smaller values having the highest probabilities and the larger values having the smallest probablities and thus P(Z=z) = (1/2)e^(sigma*epsilon*z). Sigma and epsilon representing constants that determine what x likes about y and what y likes about talking to x respectively. Sigma and epsilon regulates the age difference z, (which allows for the representation of whatever makes these two people like to talk to each other, some say mental capacity, others say humor.. u can decide and calculate sigma and epsilon accordingly).

    and since E[X] = 1/sigma and E[Y]=1/sigma E[Z] = 1/sigma - 1/(epsilon)

    And so if you believe 2 is the Expected Value of Z, 1/sigma-1/epsilon would have to equal 2.

    Goodluck generating actual parameters to support your claim :) I've had enough math for one night.


    PS.. Im not that fathya I swear, its just that I have another four hours until the library closes and I have to stay till it closes so that I can catch the theif who stole my iPod.. He kind of ran away and the library is too huge to look for him so im just going to wait by the door.. and if i never find him then atleast I will have added something useful to ur blog.. well semi-useful.. for anyone who plans to do probabalistic analysis of social theories..

    By Blogger mabya3ah, at 14.5.06  

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