Temetwir

3.11.05

"والله والنعم"

Family names are the frame in which people shine. One's entity and character are not restricted by the family name, on the contrary, I believe it adds to them. Ofcourse, one's family name should act both as a barrier, as well as a guide; preventing one from doing something while motivating to do another.

Individuality is the balance between one's entity and one's family name. It is the comprehension that there is a burden, not only social but more importantly personal, to be worthy of having that particular name. Not only the understanding ofcourse, but also the actual act of striving for it.

This pride in one's family should not be based on power nor money. It is not in relation to social status. Rather, it has a lot to do with reputation. Differentiating between them (respect for social status and social reputation) is simply done through a measurement of how genuine that respect is. If it is gained, then genuineness of respect decreases. If it is earned, genuineness increases.

How a family earns -as opposed to gaining- respect is a question of how many of its members are willing to prove that they are worthy of bearing their own title.

Hence, we go in a circle.

Point being, if someone is just 'proud' of his family and has nothing to show for it personally; then he might as well go fuck himself. On the other hand, 'pride' in one's self - probably based on accomplishment - with no recognition nor acknowledgement to one's family is just as pathetic.

posted by Temetwir at 12:20 PM

25 Comments:

  • [quote]
    'pride' in one's self - probably based on accomplishment - with no recognition nor acknowledgement to one's family is just as pathetic.
    [/quote]

    I've went through hell, because of family. Some even tryed killing me (yes, dead), while others tried to distroy me socially (rumors).

    And I've accomplished what they all couldn't, and I am proud of myself.

    WOuld you mind explaining how that is pathetic?

    By Blogger MBH, at 3.11.05  

  • mbh that is the final sentence, it concludes all that is above.. and is not to be taken out of context

    be that as it may, and as off topic this issue is, no i wouldnt mind explaining: u speak of problems within members of a family between one another, no disrespect but that proves that many of them rnt ALL willing to prove theyre worthy of their name.. in other words, they rnt really trying to accomplish something individually for the sake of the family- proof being theyre at each others necks instead of building/maintaining a rep for the name they carry

    if u have accomplished something, then u have the right to be proud of urself - since this is the base for pride in family, if everybody did the same.. however if that pride is with disregard to ur family name (not the members themselves, hatha shay thany o bainkom bain ba3ath) then yes i stand my grounds on it being pathetic

    q8prodigy
    that sounds like agreement, if so: exactly, hence the 'circle' i speak of - individuality - and also the personal comprehension of being worth

    if not, state otherwise

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.11.05  

  • Temetwir, but how would one want to rise the family name, if the family itself isn't willing to accept that person? A discription of such state is beyound my grasp at the moment, but simply put: Why would one try to give credit to someone (family name) that doesn't deserve it?

    Oh, and q8prodigy, nothing personal, but stating agreement is much easier than rephrasing sentences!

    By Blogger MBH, at 3.11.05  

  • again dearest mbh, u speak of the 'family' as something restricted to a number of members becoz they want it that way (due to problems between one another), when infact "7aamith 3ala bozhom"

    "how would one want to rise the family name, if the family itself isn't willing to accept that person"

    u ARE the 'family' .. whether they like it or not, it is who u r whether U like it or not..

    if u think u have accomplished something, then it has already gone to the 'family' too.. its just how YOU feel towards that

    --------
    i must say however that this is very interesting since u probably r living with the family which u dont carry "its name"

    in my mind, i am talking about "jimaa3at flaan", "ahal flaan" .. mo bas "weld eflan" o khalaas, i did say u have to have something to show for it.. but since u carry one name and grew/live with another .. this strikes an interesting paradox i must admit

    how would u feel if ur accomplishments u speak of were attributed to the TRUE family u grew in?

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.11.05  

  • Hmm...those were some touchy comments! Anyway, you stated a lot of relevant points. I may be going off track with this but we live in a young, collectivist country still embedded in its old traditions and culture. It's not individualistic like most of the Western cultures/nations. And I totally agree with your last point; if people are just proud because he/she is from this or that family with nothing to show for (I've actually met a lot of these excellent examples of human waste) then they should screw themselves...but you know what, I think that life will screw them over in time.

    By Blogger Erzulie, at 3.11.05  

  • Temetwir, indeed, now living with my mom's side of the family.
    I do understand the concept you're aiming for, but somehow within the post it seemed somewhat restricted.. or maybe I needed some sleep.
    What do you mean with "The TRUE family you grew in"?
    My parents got devorced when I was 12; During that period, parents were isolated from their sides (physically).
    Clarify please.

    By Blogger MBH, at 4.11.05  

  • erzulie salam
    absolutely right and i think its something that much larger, and complex societies lack .. personally i think its a disadvantage

    mcarabian
    U HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT, or should i say welcome to the dark side?.. depends on how u look at it heh:)

    mbh
    i still insist that we r going way off topic here.. but
    let me see if i can break this down to its basic form: u know how the concept of "lek kelmety" is only considered to be valid coming from members of a number of families..
    or how if u were anywhere and some1 asks what ur name is, ppl would actually stand up and shake ur hand and keep saying "walla welne3im" over and over? (diff between respect and status here kicks in)

    that is, as i see it, a huge burden.. DEFINITELY not to do with men only, but everyone who carries a certain name is born with a HUGE responsibility .. all their lives they should 'work' on being worthy of their title

    u speak of a totally diff matter which i admit am unfit to use as a basis for an example or even see relevance to the initial subject in the 1st hand

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.11.05  

  • Temetwir, as I said, I do understand the topic being discussed.
    You're discussing the inhertited reputation of known families; While I'm discussing forming an individualistic reputation, independent (or perhaps attached to another group) of one's name.

    In your case, it is a heavy load where you're constantly expected to be the best -- it may reach a certain point where you break down from all the responsibility.

    By Blogger MBH, at 4.11.05  

  • Uff! What's with people posting every two days! Ma yamdeeni arid or a3alliq 3ala kil shay!

    (hmm that might actually be a motivation for some bloggers to post more often! 3alashan ma ala77ig innee I add my cumbersome long comments to their posts! Lol)

    Anyway, I don't know what to do now, respond to this post or the one before it :/

    Please don't post anything new for at least 4-5 more days! Khaa99a inta ya Tem li'annaa mo3tham araa'ik make me want to jump up on my desk and tapdance min ilwanasa faaaa you make me really want to comment on your posts! Bas if you post too fast I get distracted by the newer posts oo yetshattat tafkeeri madri arid 3ala shino...

    Gigi, slowly

    By Blogger Gigi, at 4.11.05  

  • mbh
    i was just writing a long reply .. faj'a legait'ha!

    what i want to say is "MA7SOB 3ALAIHOM" or they tell u "MA7SOB 3ALAINA".. hence what one does AKEED is in HIS own favor, but automatically "credits" in the name he carries (both good AND bad 6ab3an)

    mn sejy kent ga3ed a7awel athker hal kelmetain for 2 days now :/

    gigi,
    respond to both.. hell, respond to any u wish,, the email notification is on so whatever u wanna do go ahead be sure its going to get across

    waiting for both

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.11.05  

  • I don't know, I mean so if no one heard of your family *for example* then you and your family *with all due respect* are better off dead mathalan?? and those who's family are known *also for example* for being dumb or stupid, they are meant to be taken as their family is? how shallow does one have to be to agree with that? ok refering to the last example if you met someone you thought was pretty smart and insightful then you found out his last name, what now? he's not so smart anymore?? come on this is one side of kuwait I HATE!

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 4.11.05  

  • sunna/ shee3ah
    aseel / besere
    rich / poor
    liberal / islamist
    jenseyah 1 , 7 , 5 ...etc , bedoun
    7there / bdewee
    najdi , 3eemee , jna3i , gerze3i , slubi.
    jawaz deplomacy
    powerful position
    .......etc
    as u can see above the "small" kuwaiti society is classified into many categories and levels , its more complicated than we think ... and all of those classes and categories think they're the best and look down at others as if they were inferior or something (ya3nee 7atta loho wa7ed mayeswah still think hes weld 3aylah) sorry for the bad language.

    so basically u're name is just a reflection of ur background ! , Yet it depends on that "background" some members of the same family might have more power than the others and are more respected by the society than the rest of other family members.

    u know i dont even know how to explain that !

    i told u ! its very complicated !

    By Blogger Mother Courage, at 4.11.05  

  • http://www.jeddah-extremes.com/

    By Blogger EMARAT JABAL SHAMMAR, at 4.11.05  

  • spont i have no idea where u got the idea of "never heard of a family = unworthy family" .. as much as its irrelevant (and impossible), i still do not see how ud infer that from what i wrote?

    also, mako shay esma "ma3rofeen to be dumb or stupid" .. i know what and who u mean, o i HOPE ur not serious (?) .. this has nothing to do with stereotypes - bad ones at that too (nationalities comes to mind too)

    finally, if u met someone who is smart, polished, and made something out of him/herself then u say "welne3em" .. unless u SERIOUSLY believe all that is said about 'certain' families ..

    all in all, im a bit stunned by what ur saying to say the least :)

    mother courage
    all those 'categories' as u put it, if they had nothing to show for it but their pride in their 'background', then those ppl can go fuck themselves.. however, there could be BROTHERS or SISTERS who are completely different .. this is where individuality comes in


    guys i must say, everyone seems to miss out the ACTUAL topic which is individuality of a member, and not the family itself .. madry its probably how i put it? but then again, maybe some misunderstood and some didnt :)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.11.05  

  • anonymous :

    i deleted ur comment on purpose

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.11.05  

  • I think that's where the problem is; your post poses a lot of relevent topics but it's conclusion is rather vague, leading people to misconstrue the real message you're trying to get across...at least that's what I got from referring back to the post and the out-there comments...

    By Blogger Erzulie, at 4.11.05  

  • erzulie
    im pretty sure u know exactly what i meant judging from what u said. i just read my concluding sentence again and i can see how it would mean a totally different thing if it werent for all that precedes it

    its not to be taken out of context, definitely

    mcarabian no u didnt, thats pretty much it .. and individualism is very much alive within the frame of ur family

    i think that restricts the 'kaifi ana 7or' mentality and just takes the best of things from it (guidance and barrier, remember)

    something which i think is an advantage Eastern societies have over those more to the West (i would like to think countries like Japan are included)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.11.05  

  • I hate the fact that everything I do does not represent me and me alone, but also represents my family. It restricts me and makes me have to conform....

    oh and mother courage:
    yes our society is divided into factions, and so are all the societies in the world. So just accept it, it is a a natural sociological development that will eventually get eradicated (its already starting to).

    By Blogger Closet Diva, at 4.11.05  

  • I do not believe in that I strongly disagree with such belief, you were not talking about an individual you were talking about an individual's family and the reflect the family gives to an individual and vise versa, which is what lead me to such thought, I might have misunderstood, blame it on the bad eye =}

    from mcarabian's comment I think I see now what you mean and I totally respect that, now I know for sure I misunderstood, it is true, whatever you do (good or bad) does reflect your family's name, which is good when you're good and thoughtful as you bring pride to your family, and ugly when some happen to be selfish and careless not recognizing that what ever they did will bring shame to their family, true that.

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 5.11.05  

  • commercial exactly, it does restrict u (acts as a barrier) but in other ways it guides u to be better

    im not a fan of crucifixion, so i'll opt to not talk about the variation (of influence) between men and women in respect to families hehe

    spont salamtech o matshofen shar :) now ur getting it.. but do u think its an advantage or dont u?

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 5.11.05  

  • Allah yesalmek, an advantage to have a framey family name? I think it could somewhat hold your true self back, people would probably show respect that one does not deserve just because his or her family deserves it, I heard of people who had to change their last names because they wanted to show themselves that they accomplished their dreams by themselves not by their families names, that I would totally be proud of, I believe in self independency, so no I do not believe it's an advantage, when on the other hand, you would do something to be proud of in the name of your family, that itself is an honor.

    I hope I got your question right this time hehe =}

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 5.11.05  

  • spont
    in response i would quote : "One's entity and character are not restricted by the family name, on the contrary, I believe it adds to them."

    on that basis then i would say (in regard to whoever changed his family name) that is pathetic

    selfish too, if i may add

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 5.11.05  

  • :)

    By Blogger Baroque, at 5.11.05  

  • hmmm, we don't see eye to eye I guess =} I don't see why not be selfish when it does not hurt your family yet does you well, how can a person be selfish anyway just because he ore she wanted to accomplish something without using their family's name?!! I think it's impressing and challenging, I would do that, I would reviel my last name after my accomplishments.

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 5.11.05  

  • tantalize, the master himself.. thank u i take that as a compliment :)

    charisma hala wala :)

    spont ra7 amot isgheer b sebetich u know that? i didnt (and will never) say 'use ur family name to get places' .. bel3aks, thats what im implying against

    oh and as i said to mbh, we're not really talking about "last names" ..

    la y3ni sij sij b tethbe7eeny hehe, blame it on the eye ha? :p

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 5.11.05  

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