بنات الناس مو لعبة

This, as usual, is going to stir unwanted drama.

First things first, I really don't care about your story. I really don't. I'm really not sorry if that offends you either. I don't want to know about your family or friends. And I don't expect you to go further than this sentence. If you're reading this sentence right now, then you just want to get offended, don't you?

People in general don't take marriage seriously. That's something I've noticed over the past 3 years, and it isn't something nice to notice. The whole thing about mixing love with marriage, with the latter being the literal tying the knot of the former, is just one of the many things that reassure my observation. The ever increasing divorce rates, I think, does not necessarily serve my purpose any good. Rather, the reasonings behind some of the divorces does. In other words, personally I don't regard the increasing divorces as something that proves people not taking marriage seriously; not at all. It's the reasons behind some of the divorces that infact do. Moreover, and this is different from the 'love' factor, there seems to be wrong reasonings for getting married, on both parts of genders.

Starting from the last point; how many of you can deny being told/having heard/having said something like "ha meta il zawaaj inshaala" to someone who had just, either, finished college/got a job/reached 25 or-whatever-age?
Get this through your heads, marriage is not an obligation. You're probably scrolling down to the comments right now to tell me "il zawaaj ness el deen", aren't you? Weren't you?
The point being, people treat marriage as if it's something necessary that 'completes' a person. I argue that one must be complete first in order to marry. And this is specifically for the guys more so than for the ladies. How I define 'complete' is none of your business, nor is it my business to know how you define it yourself.

Moving on to the whole thing about boy loves girl, I think, it doesn't get any more pathetic than that. Yeah, I'm talking to you. You're telling me that you don't have enough respect towards yourself that you feel the obligation to commit to someone just because she makes you feel some way or another? That's like me taking you to a strip club and asking you "tabeeha?" in reference to the girl giving you a lapdance. True story. Let me put it this way, the girl you've been 'in love' with for the past .. 4 years? Ten k says that I can make you feel the same towards another girl in a matter of 4 months. Another ten k says that this is a repetitive process. Double or nothing for saying that you're shaking your head right now.

When it comes to marriage, you're either ready or you're not. That is, you either can be worthy of being a husband or not. It has nothing to do with how you feel towards 'the girl of your dreams'. It has nothing to do with how rich you are. And it sure as hell doesn't have anything to do with how old you are, men welda, o sheno shahadtek.


  • Interesting take on the matter Timitwir. It's only useful to know how the boys feel about this issue.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 2.12.05  

  • zinzin
    most boys would tell u "legait'ha" referring to some1 he saw some place..
    and its really sad for me to say this but some guys would 'try' with the grl, etha ethbe6at .. "khalas mo malat zawaj" .. yeg3ad ma3aha cham shahar o y36eech the classic "la hathi gair, ana emjarib gairha o agdar agolek hathy gair"
    and if she didnt then "thegeleea, tesla7 om e3yaal .. khalas bakalem omi/ekhti tdeg 3alaihom"

    y3ni la man6eg la mn shabab wala banat .. hence my opinion that no one takes it seriously

    i really, realllly cant remember the last time someone talked to me abt children when the issue of marriage comes up .. its all abt 'having fun, travelling, buying, going out' o madri sheno

    ok now im all worked up..

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 2.12.05  

  • Well dont get that worked up. Everyone I know always talks about having a good father/mother for their children. But maybe thats because we're in a different age group- late twenties/ early thirties. You think more deeply about marriage at that age than you do at 23 which is when its about the honeymoon and the shopping and traveling, etc.

    It's a shame that boys pretend they're really interested in marriage and then change their minds once they've dated a girl. That's one of the reasons why girls in Kuwait really shouldn't date AT ALL. That is, if they want to keep their pride and not allow themselves to be casually fooled by some guy who will never become their husbands.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 2.12.05  

  • First and foremost..THANK YOU for saying one must complete first before marriage. Being a female i'd like to point out that this should also apply to females as well.. since i have sadly seen many horrible marriages and motherhoods/fatherhoods go wrong due to either gender not being stable or 'complete'.
    Next thing I want to just comment on zinzinq8. I dont believe it is right for EITHER kuwaiti men or women to date. Perhaps socially a man can 'get away with it', but looking at the moral, ethical and lets not forget the religious aspect of it, it isnt acceptable regardless of gender.
    Last thing, temetwir, you mentioned that it isnt about loving a girl or how they make you feel. I do believe that there has to be some form of 'connection' between two individuals to form a healthy marriage.. I dont believe it is the romantic, story book 'love' that Hollywood sells and publisizes, but there has to be good communication skills and the ability to work as a team. And when children come into the picture, thats when they really have to unite as a couple.

    By Blogger SheWolf, at 2.12.05  

  • zinzin i beg to differ, i dont think it has to do with age.. rather being mature, or just UNDERSTANDING what marriage really IS
    im 21 and am not saying im all that but i know for a fact that the majority of 21 yr olds out there do NOT regard marriage as i do

    abt grls going out on dates, i strongly suggest u (as in u grls) dont even get involved with guys .. wala 7ata phonecalls, respecting urself is respecting urself.. it isnt a matter of stages or something
    .. am sorry if it sounds mean, but somebody has got to say it and im willing to just get it off my chest

    i know where ur coming w/ the grl also being complete .. but i would argue that the man has to go far greater lengths than the grl for being eligible for marriage .. a grl has to set her mind straight .. a guy has to do a lot of other things to prove to himself that he can infact take care of a wife o inshala support a family

    also, in regard to what i said abt "its not abt the grl or how she makes u feel", i totally meant to restrict it to BEFORE marriage .. sure there must be a connection, and a whole lot of other things including and not restricted to appreciation, mutual respect, kindness and what have u.. i agree with u totally BUT (to me) that should all come after marriage/getting to know ur wife/getting her to know u .. i really really am against all that nonesense w/ relationships and am speaking from 1st hand experience

    finally, u touched upon the idea of 'socially acceptable' for men to do smthing and get away with it, i addressed that in here
    and also the whole concept of 'love' o romance and all that BS nowadays over here

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 2.12.05  

  • Temetwir, one last point i would like you to clarify for me.
    You keep saying that feelings of mutual respect,connection and 'what have you not' should come after marriage. But here's what i'm curious about. I don't suppose you believe that one can get along (in a marriage sense) with any individual once they are married and get to know one another. I believe that there should exist some mutual connection (that is encouraged by talking to parents and informing them you are interested in their daughter with the prospect of marriage..or basically ilkho6bah). What i am trying to point out is I dont believe anyone can marry any other individual and have a successful marriage, and no i am not advocating any form of premartial, non Islamic relationship.

    By Blogger SheWolf, at 2.12.05  

  • shewolf
    am glad u brought that up actually.. in the kho6ba itself, both can 'request' meeting one another numerous times, sometimes they dont feel "it" so they would just say no .. thats not rejection, thats what ur talking abt - not having the mutual connection

    some would argue "oh but they both would act all perfect and appear to be flawless" .. i really dont think any ONE nowadays is naive enough to be fooled fully, if they sense it then they have the right to say 'no', if they dont and want to meet again then they could just come back time and time over again

    NOT to mention that, in q8 espicially, and this has happened to me a couple of times my sister would come tell me abt one of her friends

    ya3ni tara 6ebaaye3 el naas baayna, but ofcourse they have to meet to figure out if theres a connection ..
    i could go on to mention the type of questions one would ask, they would definitely say a lot

    and btw occasionaly u meet two ppl who just 'saw one another', and the guy had the initiatitive mn awal shay kan yabi yetzawaj o he "saw" what he "liked" .. sometimes all it takes is someone terta7aain lah .. and then u meet

    if anything, this type of marriage is WAAAAAY more diverse and WAAY more helpful to meet the right 'kind' both parts r interested in, rather than going out there and "looking" for their 'partners'

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 2.12.05  

  • ok temetwir you got my attention again. You said questions to ask that say a lot. Please give me the five most important questions to ask and what would they mean.

    I propose a sixth question: why did you break off previous engagements/ or get divorced? Oftentimes the answer for this can be very telling.

    (And as a side issue, inta mashalla wayed mit7ammis and you have so much to say, but tara this isn't like speaking so sometimes I just don't understand what you're saying when you don't use full sentences or only half phrases. No offense Temetwir Im only saying this because I think you have important things to say and I would like to understand better.)

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 2.12.05  

  • zinzin ma 3omri kha6abt so i wouldnt be able to give u exact questions lena sure enough when ur there sitting ud come across some specific questions according to where the interaction is going.. but lets see (and im not sure what ur asking abt, el bent sh tes'al wela el esbay sh yes'al - lets take the grl) ..

    id expect her to ask me directly abt what it is exactly that i do and not be satisfied with what her parents told her.. also what i do in my spare time (wain aro7, wain agiz heh), and what my routine is with dowaween for example .. personally i think these r "classic" questions that tell u alot abt the guy infront of u .. so much infact that i would ask a guy myself these questions.. and based on them u can have a basic idea

    im sure asking why ru divorced is a legit question, but am not sure abt the "laish fesakht khe6betek" .. shdaraha aslan 3an el khe6ba?

    concerning the issue, no offense taken, but am not sure what it is exactly ur referring to that u didnt understand ill be happy to explain/expand

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 2.12.05  

  • Good idea Temitwir. (I was asking you as if you're talking about your sister. Ya3ni what would you tell your sister to ask the guy and what would you ask the guy yourself even.) The concentration on what the suitor does in his spare time is a very good idea.

    As for the 5u6ooba issue, you often know in Kuwait when people were engaged and broke it off. Sometimes the guy cheats during the engagement and gives a stupid excuse like or gets caught off track oo ytedodah. Ya3ni if his past engagement is famous, it's a good thing to know why. And if the guy is divorced his ex-wife herself should be also be asked, keeping in mind that she will have a bias naturally.

    I can't think of a particular example when I didn't understand you. Your posts/articles are perfect. But your comments can get confusing cuz they seem to be written very fast, like someone talking. I will let you know next time it happens. Thanks for being a good sport.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 2.12.05  

  • -Applause-

    By Blogger f_, at 2.12.05  

  • zinzin oh ok i wouldnt know i never did tell my sis to ask such and such, but yeah to ask abt spare time and time in general tells u a lot abt the person .. likewise, if a guy asks a grl and then proceeds to ask "men ma3ah?" stuff like that, am sure it says a lot .. and then depending on expectation, one can determine whether or not theres hope between the 2..
    and abt the calling off of engagements and such, i dunno honestly.. ive been told abt divorces thu, some reasons were just stranger than fiction

    heh and ill try to bear that in mind and slow down in my 'speechtalk'

    fedo 7abeeb :))

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 2.12.05  

  • Man what is your fuckin' problem? People wanna marry, fuck, then divorce. Just let them be will you. Who gives a damn. Some boys don't know how to hook-up etc. so the first girl that smiles at them is transformed into a princess in shining armor! Let them! Excuse my French I just woke up. Cheers

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2.12.05  

  • heeeeh heeeh ya Teme heeeh

    I agree with zinzin inna its hard to follow what you're trying to say sometimes :)

    no no I agree that "girls of the people are not a toy". (banat innas mo le3ba)

    I have a question though.. and this is directed at the ladies who read this. I think it relates to the topic in some weird way. The question is, do women find it harder to "get over" failed relationships than men do?

    Why I think the question is relevant. I think it is because what Teme's talking about here is the "courting ritual" that precedes marriage. And how far a courting ritual goes before it fails, and will it affect both the guy and the girls' chances for future "courting rituals".

    1- Do guys suffer less damage emotionally?

    2- Do guys suffer less damage socially?

    I'm asking the 2 questions totally inviting others to reply, but I also would like to put down what I already think.

    I think that women suffer more deeply from a failed relationship. I'm not saying that us guys are total pigs, sure we CAN be, but most aren't. So yes guys can and do suffer emotionally from a failed relationship, but I don't think it comes close to how it feels for a girl. I think women commit way more specifically and exclusively to a man when she finally decides to allow him into that special place in her psyche. I actually am extremely curious about how that feels, because as a guy I think (infact I think I'm certain) that I couldn't feel commitment or "love" towards a woman as fiercly or as totallly iron-clad as a woman does towards the man she loves. I sometimes feel envious because of that. Why are we guys so superficial? we're like over-excited puppies running after the ice-cream truck, easily distracted by the next truck going in the opposite direction.

    Does that mean men are less moral than women?! I mean, sure there's always exceptions and some women can be as superficial and maybe more, but I mean in general, on the average, women seem to have a stronger inclination for stability and commitment to marriage.

    Anyhow, I think it's for that reason that it's dangerous for immature guys to tell girls that they love them and what not. Even if the guy is completely honest about how he feels, and how he "lovvvves" her (rosy hearts floating around his head), as Teme said, he must understand that she deserves long-term commitment, and that he should be prepared to give it to her.

    I mean, guys are usually the initiators of contact. Most girls I know would resent a guy who would show no interest in her until she initiates contact. So I think it is the guy who should be careful and responsible.

    In short, don't string these poor girls along for years without a plan. walla 7aram.

    By Blogger mishari26, at 3.12.05  

  • Balbool,

    wow.. you think people who get divorced actually planned on it? like its totally normal and they have no problems with it?

    what are you nuts? it hurts like fucking hell ok? and this is coming from a guy, so you can muliply this by 100 and you'll be getting close to how it feels for the woman. and you can excuse MY french. pinhead.

    There's something that women do better than us, its called "SOME FUCKING SENSITIVITY", so get a clue and stop thinking like a cave man.

    By Blogger mishari26, at 3.12.05  

  • :) lool

    too late :)

    By Blogger Mohammad Al-Yousifi, at 3.12.05  

  • balbol ur my fucking problem, shbetsawi y3ni? :) zain kel teben yalla

    mishari u speak the truth, but im not TOO sure on generalising the men's concept of being easily distracted.. UNLESS ur talking here abt a "relationship" that isnt bound with something like marriage, then yes i agree and i can totally relate in a past life..
    however that is NOT to say that a married guy will never err.. on the contrary, THIS is what im discussing "banat elnas mo le3ba" :)

    - and mishari wala yhemek, abt the not-understanding-me sometimes, ill keep that in mind taamer

    kila ma6goog
    ha shfeek tetboosam :p yebna seertek? hehehe, share ur story ya Romeo il kibeeer heh :)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • OHHHH that is one big subject, if I put my full comment on that I think your blog will freeze, I'll try to be brief.

    Things that lead to devours:
    1.unbalanced families (rich and poor, highly and low adjucated..so on)
    2.stubern spouses, (no one is welling to loss some of his or hers thoughts)
    3.unworthy of responsibility (him, her or both)
    4.dala3 el ahal 7ag 3yalhom "elma3arees" they used to live a different life, there parents life, now it's time to live there own.
    5.tada5ool el ahall fe KILL SHAY, kill maya3nehom o mala ya3nehom, let them solve some of there problems alone.
    6.in3edam esha59eya (yi6la3 elwa7id min baita mith el3asal ma3a zojta raye7 edewaniya, yerja3 rab3a tarseen mo5a kalam fathee e3afsoon 7ayata) and that goes for both.
    7.womon can take what ever they want from the man but let him feel that he is the one who decided to give you that thing, and men can take 10 things from a woman if he gave here one thing she wants (what ever that thing is)
    8. always be loyal to your spouse, fe 7othora o gheyaba.

    I can go on and on and on... but one thing reman, you and your wife are one person, if that is agreed on with both, then I promise you that you will live happily ever after

    By Blogger Hattorihanzo, at 3.12.05  

  • bo fay
    durrar.. plz go on if u have some more and want to expand on them

    and btw i think ALL that uve said can be applied on even BEFORE marriage .. so it works both ways :)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • temetwir: you bet it does, choosing the right wife is so difficult, but that does not mean ilwa7ed yet3araf 3ala banat enaas lama elagee ele et3ajba, that I'm against 100%

    By Blogger Hattorihanzo, at 3.12.05  

  • bo fay wallah, 7ALAFT wallah fahemni

    me: "if anything, this type of marriage is WAAAAAY more diverse and WAAY more helpful to meet the right 'kind' both parts r interested in, rather than going out there and "looking" for their 'partners'"

    u: "that does not mean ilwa7ed yet3araf 3ala banat enaas lama elagee ele et3ajba"

    3ala raasi :))

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • The flick you mentioned is called crush, not love.

    Love is never about you; It's always about the other person, i.e., that person comes in first before yourself. Nothing is physical here. It's pure.

    By Blogger MBH, at 3.12.05  

  • * Is it harder for a woman to get over a failed engagement/marriage? Well, it all depends on the female herself (her personality, background, etc) & the actual situation that lead to the termination of their union. Some women take it lighter than others, but I believe overall women do get affected more as they're beings lead more by emotion than men.

    * Asking about the reasons why the previous marriage/engagement failed? There's no gaurantee you'll get the truth. If you ask the ex, perhaps he/she's bitter & want to ruin things. If you ask the person themself, they won't say the truth if THEY were the reason things didn't work out.

    * I personally think some of the important things that women should look for are: how religious the guy is & itha ekhaf Allah, what kind of relationship he has with his family (is he close to them/feels responsability, wila ma eyhema shay wala meftekir fee a7ad), what type of people he hangs around with (sometimes the crowd the person hangs around says a lot about them), etc.....

    * There are no guarantees in life. If you want to get married, and you feel you're ready, and you feel you've made the right choice, it's a 50-50 chance. You either luck out or you don't. But what everyone needs to take into consideration is that it's NOT an easy road & both parties need to be prepared to go through a lot of problems before they learn how to live together.. and they need to learn to be patient to get through these problems.

    At the end of the day, Islam is pretty clear on the duties of men/women in marriage.. and those who go in with a proper 'neya' towards marriage get judged accordingly, and those who play around, Allah mawjood.

    We need to stop taking things so personally and deal with life's problems as we face them. The rest 3ala Allah.

    By Blogger MSB, at 3.12.05  

  • temetwir Again, great post. I have realized that, with you, either I agree completely, or disagree with you so much that I can't even begin to explain all the things that bother me about your posts :P Bs ashwa, this one is good - it's very very good :)

    mishari I'm not sure about other girls, but I'll try to answer your question from my own point of view: lets put aside the fact that a girl's reputation and all the stuff that comes with it is more fragile than a guys in Kuwait for the moment - I think girls are more 'sensitive' about this whole marriage/love thing because it means shifting their loyalty from their family to their husband/boyfriend/fiance. Ye3ny kilmat ilrayal itseer ahem min kilmat il ahal. That is a major decision to take, and once it's done, it's really difficult to go back. So when she is betrayed/dumped/etc, she really doesn't know what to do with herself since she has to shift loyalties again. I7na 3arab, loyalty is like air to us - without it we are nothing.
    I'm not sure if you know of this story, but every girl in my family has been told this story to make us understand what it means to marry a man: A girl who had five brothers and a father married a good Kuwaiti man and the couple were living together in his house for a year before the first real fight broke out. After the fight, the girl moved back to her family's house and announced to her family that she wants a divorce. The father invited the husband to tea the next day. After the husband arrived, and settled down, the father called his daughter to hip and ripped the front of her shirt. The girl immediately jumped behind her husband to hide her chest from her brothers and father, at which point the father said, "that's where your loyalty (and heart) is: not with us, but with your husband."

    By Blogger McArabian, at 3.12.05  

  • mbh
    valid observation, now if only the bitch-ass-guys who make this into a big deal would take our word for it

    i like what u said in regard to the questions.. espicially the emphasis on family, a very very big issue for me.. id definitely ask a grl abt that

    however i disagree on saying that marriage is a 50-50 chance, IF we're talking about "after meeting the other person and talking for a number of times"

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • mcarabian oops u probably commented just as i was writing my response, anyway..

    yeah am glad u agree.. but make sure u dont make a habit of it so u can disagree from time to time.. BRING IT ON BRING IT AWWN heh

    i read ur reply to mishari and id just like to comment on the story u mention: ur not suggesting its true ru :P
    but it does prove a point

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • What I meant by 50-50 chance is, for e.g.: u go about things the right way, u propose & meet the girl via her family, u both feel that ur compatible & move forward.. this doesnt necessarily mean that things will work out.

    sometimes the beginnings are wonderful, but with time people's tolerance level goes down, people's true colors come out, they might encounter a problem as a couple that they never expected, children are born and suddenly the whole equation changes, etc.. all these things weigh on a relationship and no one can know for sure how the other person will react to it 1-5-10 years down the line!

    What I'm saying is, unless both people put in the effort and try to make it work out, it'll be a difficult and long road. And there's no way you'll know if both r willing to continously work on the relationship until you actually start LIVING through it.

    Ma7ad ye3lam el ghaib, we can only try to minimize the risk of failure, & work on what we can work on. But even that, doesn't guarantee a happy ending!

    By Blogger MSB, at 3.12.05  

  • msb
    point taken, i stand corrected

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • McArabian

    That's a very interesting point. As a guy I would have never thought about it that way. thanks for the illumination.

    As for the story, well.. assuming it was real, I still dislike it. I thank you for telling it, it does have a strong point within it. But I think it demeans women. If I was the husband standing there and her father did that, I'd seriously (and I mean this) punch him in the face.

    "refqan belqawareer" (gently with the vases) (vases=women)

    "khairokom khairokom li'ahleh" (the best of you are the ones who are best to their women/families)

    screw this male-superiority crap justifying abuse. humans run on compassion as fuel. that's all I got to say.

    By Blogger mishari26, at 3.12.05  

  • McArabian,
    Speaking as a woman I never thought of marriage as an issue of loyalty transference. And although I think it's an interesting take, I feel it to be irrelevant to me. In fact, and most of my friends since they are usually very very close to their families. Loyalty for us girls, especially in Kuwait, is for the family first. Loyalty as it pertains to the husband is only with regard to non-immediate-family people. After years of marriage, loyalty to the husband will equate that you feel toward your family. I just don’t think that loyalty is the issue that makes breakups or divorces really hard.

    Women do not necessarily take things harder than men. I think it depends on who initiated the breakup. In an engagement for example, for me to break off an engagement I would have to be SO enraged with the guy that his departure from my life is a much needed relief. In other words, a girl can actually feel the phrase “good riddance” when she pushes a guy away. And although there’s much disappointment related to having built pink dreams in your head regarding marrying the guy, you can get over it. We have our mothers, sisters, and even the super close friends to support us through broken engagements. Women are very emotional so when you see them get so angry and hurt for you and your broken hopes you really feel like you’ve fallen on a soft cushion that you didn’t know existed. It has a lot to do with how good your fiancé made you feel. If he was horrible, what you’ll really feel is “ro7a bala radda”!

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 3.12.05  

  • MSB,
    You're all about wisdom. I was disappointed that you were female though because I wished I would hear a guy talking like that. I wish more guys would understand and accept that marriage/engagements take work and take RISK instead of recoiling at the first sign of any problem or disagreement. No one is ever 100% sure of anything because humans are constantly changing and hence people change during the marriage and "il tawfeeg" comes if they grow together instead of growing apart. And no one will know which way the pendulum will sway before actually getting married. It's always a risk.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 3.12.05  

  • zinzin
    mad respect for MSB, bas shda3wa u wish she were a guy so u could read a guy talk abt that .. el shibeeba ehni sarlehom sena shegolon 3ayal alla yhadach

    but i agree that msb is all abt wisdom

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • Sorry Temetwir, I didnt mean to say all guys don't understand and accept that marriage is difficult, etc. The truth is I think that most don't. And even if they say they do when they really are in the situation they feel too bad, sad, and pressured and they give up. If you really are only 21 and you talk/feel the way you do then you should know you're a rare commodity and Alla y3afee ummuk wibook illi 3rifaw yraboon rayyal.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 3.12.05  

  • temmy..
    tarak 7ayartnii ;P
    u don't believe in love right? and are not involved?
    yet you think marriage should be a serious thing?
    how do you expect people to get married without love?

    sorry for the interrogation.. ;p

    By Blogger Baroque, at 3.12.05  

  • zinzin ur right in saying that most dont, and i thought i made it clear in the post .. so yes it does get on my nerve too that guys can be just as naive and 'dreamy' as some grls r when it comes to marriage ..
    and yea the 21 age thing i said earlier wasnt an example or anything.. i 'really' am 21, sorry if that wasnt clear,, o ma 3alaich zood tislemeen

    - yes Ma'am, i do not believe in love in its widely dealt with sense in this age and time

    - yes Ma'am, i do think marriage is a serious thing, if not THE most serious commitment in one's entire lifetime

    - i expect a man to meet his wife in a manner that is not tainted in any way, and that does include not disrespecting who she is by going behind her family's trust and 'being involved'

    - yes Ma'am, i am currently uninvolved, and i do think involvement before marriage is just a lie no matter how true it may seem .. i speak from 1st hand experience when i say that any self respecting man would never wish to meet a partner that way, espicially when given the other opportunities society and culture offer

    it is only when people are sentimental and involved with someone that their judgements are clouded .. HOO-RAH

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • thanx temy..
    for all its worth, i think u're a great, straight forward and a bit aggressive (just joking ;P) guy..
    hehe allah iywafgik inshallah ;)

    By Blogger Baroque, at 3.12.05  

  • zinzin & msb:

    I agree with all that msb said, especially about the hard work and effort that marriage requires to continue. As well as the part about minimizing incompatiblities. And no matter how much the two are alike, there will always be differences, and even those small differences can seem big when they're the only ones. It takes patience and determination to stand back and put the issues in proper perspective.

    Marriage is about family and continuation. families don't exist without strong marriages. I think we can all agree that most of the people we love the most are from within our families. So yes it IS important to make marriages work as much as possible.


    Love comes so easily between any two good people. the romantic love you see in movies is nothing but quick infatuation and a bit of lust thrown in. the real stuff is about goodness of heart and caring and being considerate.

    By Blogger mishari26, at 3.12.05  

  • charisma teslimeen kelech nethar, and no u werent joking abt the aggressive bit :)

    but i promised everybody to tone it down a bit, fa yseer khair

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • Hi bro, 6ab3an ur posts are great as usual, bs cuz ur my little bro maby atfakhik wayid (yeah, jealous older sister) :P
    The problem is I don't know why I never have anything to comment, its not that i agree 100%, cuz sometimes I don't. I don't know what it is. Anyway, I read them ALL! But, sorry I dont comment.

    (Talk about adding wood to the fire, eh? The snowball keeps getting bigger and bigger...we'll be having an avalanche soon) :P

    By Blogger Delicately Realistic, at 3.12.05  

  • Temetwir, Im writing you here because I kept trying to do it on the inkaledoscope site and it wouldn't go through.
    Regarding my peice, International Orientation, I should write clearer next time because I thought what I was trying to communicate came across right. Or maybe is you were a girl you’d get it better because it’s very delicate and its related to how women don’t talk about this stuff.

    Here’s the deal:
    The issue with regard to the Kuwaiti girls not doing it is not that she is unconvinced. She is very Kuwaiti in that sense and believes in what she was taught and what her religion demands. The issue here is that Asma has never had to discuss that with anyone before, let alone discuss it with a male! How could she explain to a Venezuelan MAN why we are like that, our religious concerns, etc? I mean people here already think we’re aliens fa mablik if we tell them exactly how prudent we are? At the same time, she can’t tell him how dare you discuss such issues with me or “yulla 3aad ista7 3ala wayhik!” 
    Therefore she chose the easiest path: she mumbled something about religion and walked away so she can avoid further interrogation on the matter.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 3.12.05  

  • dCC, hala bent mort obooy
    looking forward to what u gotta say in any given topic that u dont agree with 100%, ill keep an eye for that :)

    zinzin, makes perfect sense
    hats off to her then..
    but, "I mean people here already think we’re aliens"
    what ppl? here where?

    ill keep an eye on there too to see where the discussion leads

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 3.12.05  

  • Here in the U.S. Temetwir. Even in the UK I assume, but less so than the US. They already dont get us so if you start telling them stuff like well uh hummm i dont date uhh hummmm, it just starts a whole series of other questions. I was considering creating a prochure for the next person who asks me so that I dont have to keep explaining all the damn time.

    By Blogger ZinZinQ8, at 3.12.05  

  • Okay, I stopped 3/4 the way down (the comments, that is). Mishari26, I agree with ALL your points and applaud your clarity and knowledgable, experienced take on the topic; I think you're the only one out of the two (three?) commentators who's married. I personally believe mutual respect is a step higher than love. Sure two individuals can be madly in love with each other (insert: could fall out of love too) but is there respect? Hmm...point to ponder. I think morals, values, and most importantly, their stance on religion should be similiar if not the same. And yes, people do change, bes 6ab3 il wa7id mayet`3ayar...

    By Blogger Erzulie, at 3.12.05  

  • I couldn't agree with you more!!!

    The whole marriage thing is so over-rated!!!

    You find the right person then get married if your paths didn't cross don't force it. It'll happen when it's supposed to happen!

    I hate that "tikamil noss deenik" The problem people force all the stages onto you. You finish highshchool, it's college, you get the job it's marriage...the worse one. "Haaa lal7een ma7amaltay? Yala ishtigholoo 3adil"

    WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU?? I mean that's butting into my sex life.... just disgusts me when older women comment about things like that.

    I say live your life the way you want it!! married, single, playboy, gay, straight....whatever!!! It's your life screw people's comments!

    (oh I haven't read any of the comments just had to comment on the post thoug;))

    By Blogger samboose, at 3.12.05  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 3.12.05  

  • inta laish etmoot 3al nejra!? by the first paragraph I was thinking "ok girl, prepare to fight" *sleeves up* .. then I read on to realize who's fighting! I totally agree! *no fight.. bummer =/..*
    marriage is misunderstood in our time, it's looked at from a very wrong perspective, people get married from "7annat il ahal" and you expect it to last? it's not based on the thought of being ready to commit now, one’s family couldn't care less, they think the sooner we tie our children down in holly matrimony the safer they will be.. WRONG! VERY VERY WRONG!!

    Mishari, have you not realized this till now? a girl who plays around is the one who doesn't get hurt, cause she can always count on her rebound to get over the previous guy, but faithful girls? sorry dude, it takes ages to get over someone they truely cared about.

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 3.12.05  

  • zinzin heh gotcha

    samboose while it is true that everyone is 'free' to live his or her life the way he or she deems fit, that still doesnt make EVERYTHING they do right .. so infact some comments r much needed if u know what i mean :p
    and trust me, its not just the older women nagging the younger grls :)

    spontan, come out and admit it, u just hate me coz am black..
    i have to disagree though, about the 'being safe' comment .. as i have said out loud in the post, the discussion mostly concerns itself with men.. grls r a whole diff matter so lets not mix randomly


    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.12.05  

  • Spontaneousnessity Thankfully I haven't had any personal experiences with such "multi-tasking" girls. Also I don't think families want to "get rid" of their kids into marrying them away. Misguided maybe, but certainly out of love for their children for stability and offspring as well. I also don't understand what is it that ilma3arees have to wait for to be "ready". All you need is:

    1- Reasonably compatible ideologies.
    2- Independent income.
    3- Good manners and decency on both sides.
    4- Ability to care about one another.
    = healthy marriage.

    mo chemistry :)

    As for what you said about girls getting over guys they actually liked, thats what I thought and I've seen it happen all too often where a guy and a girl are "in love" for years on the phone (and recently "dating"? madre 3anhom), and after years of promises and even denial. Sometimes both know that a future between them would be problematic because of different backgrounds etc., yet they continue feeding the dream of a wonderful life together, a life that exists in secret in their heads alone.

    So, what you said about the girl never forgetting about a guy she cared for its only too true. And its really sad. Guys who purposefully ignore this and go around lying to girls left and right and make them feel like they're the one and only girl he's ever loved, its really a criminal thing to do to them. I think there's a reason older social standards worked better for our previous generations, and I'm not talking only about Kuwait here.

    I think the more a girl guards her emotions and "saves" them for her future husband, the more satisfied she will be with him. I think that women were built in that way, while in comparison men are just easily distractable creatures of pleasure. We're too practical to bother with sensitivity lil'asaf. I seriously feel disgraced sometimes to be a guy.

    Erzulie You humble me. And yes thank God I am married to the most wonderful woman on earth, and she gave me the best 2 kids I could possibly hope for, 6ayooba 5yrs and 3abood 1.5yrs. And let me say that love comes from goodness. The more good I see in my wife, the more I love her, and vice versa. Love is never a lightning bolt that strikes you on the head on first sight, that if it happens is called "sex appeal". which I have nothing against btw! I've seen that love grows and withers depending on how much work and effort you put into nurturing it with good will.

    "And yes, people do change, bes 6ab3 il wa7id mayet`3ayar..."

    I used to think that way for the longest time til once a friend told me this 7adeeth about how irrasool (PBUH) told one of his 9a7aba "la taghdab." repeatedly (don't get angry). Also another one which goes like "innama al3elm betta3allom, wa innama il7elm betta7allom" (knowledge is by learning, and serenity/calmness is by calming yourself)

    Now, both suggest that personalities are changeable and maleable, but require hard work and effort, like excercise. So I think it's no excuse for people to let their tempers fly off the handles and just justify it to themselves "inhom 6abe3athom chethe 3a9abiyen".

    We can control ourselves if we tried harder. We basically can be better people if we tried harder. no excuses really.

    By Blogger mishari26, at 4.12.05  

  • loooooooooooool laish bint mort obok? laish mo ikhtik min omik o obok? lol la tfawil!

    By Blogger Delicately Realistic, at 4.12.05  

  • dCC, my baaad

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 4.12.05  

  • o mino gal girls? o why do you think safer = girls only?! mothers do worry about their little boys too no matter how old, same issue.

    By Blogger Spontaneousnessity, at 5.12.05  

  • teme too many comments man everything's been said already next time i have to check your blog more regulary so i could be one of the first ones to comment!

    By Blogger A3sab, at 5.12.05  

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