Temetwir

31.1.06

هذا الي ناقص

Explain this to me like I'm a six year old.

What does 'religion is a personal thing only' even mean? Mind you, this only concerns anyone and everyone who wishes to believe he or she is a muslim. No one can take that away from you. No one. Unless you do, or say, some very stupid things. Things that, ma3a kil e7teramy, ma astab3id that you actually would do; but I'd like to think otherwise since it really does not concern me.

What does concern me however is that myself and they have something in common. We like to think of ourselves as muslims. The catch is, however, I know that il islam isn't a 'personal thing'. It's not so for one very very very simple reason.

It's not meant to be adjustable to your 'personal standards'.

Therefore, no, it isn't 'personal'. The only thing 'personal' about it is that you are accounted for all the things you have done or said et cetera. But guess what, that DOES include you philosophizing on it being 'a personal matter'.

If you would like to think that some of the teachings of your religion are 'somewhat primitive', or 'la chena fashla jedam el naas', then that's your problem. It is your 'personal problem'. However, it being your 'personal' problem does not give you the right to 'personally' amend your faith. I'm already getting bored of this, but because it is NOT a 'personal' matter.

In fact, it's not even a human-beings' privelage. Il islam risaala le kilaa mn il ins wil jin. In addition: 'Yosabi7u lelaah ma fil samaawate wa ma fil arth'. In short, amout wa3arf mn wain yaybeen "religion is a personal thing".

Whenever someone is 'preaching' or 'teaching' or whatever you want to call it, he or she (most of the time) isn't. Most of the time, you would like to think so because he or she is saying all the things that go against your 'personal' set of standards that simply do not adhere to the teachings of your faith. Tough luck. They are just abiding to 'il amr bel ma3roof wil nahey 3an il monkar'. So again, how is it a 'personal matter o ma7ad lah sheghel feeni' when you yourself mokallaf or mokallafa enich tamreen bel ma3rof o tanheen 3an el monkar.

Al7eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen haanat 3alaikom etfasroon el aayat wet7e6oon a7aadeeth o 7alatkom 7aala, o khanat 7aily mestakthreen enkom tamron belma3rof o tanhon 3an el monkar? "La shdaraana sheno el ma3rof o sheno el monkar". Ya salaam, ashouf daraitaw eshlon tefasroun il aayat.

A lot of times, lel asaf il shadeed, I come across people who whine and whine about the programs that present a "bearded guy", or a "covered lady" talking about il islam "as if they're the only ones they know about it".
At least they know that il islam is more than just 5 times' prayer a day, 30 days' fasting a year and whatever bits and pieces you have gathered from here and there.

I find it somewhat amusing that all the things people choose to understand are 'personal choices' are those that reward them in this lifetime (pleasure); or make their lives easier (in the sense that they don't have to do something).

I'm not teaching you here. I'm just telling you how it works. Just because you have your own set of standards (just like I do), does not give you, nor myself 6ab3an, the right to even THINK that I can change my faith here or there just to make it applicable.

When you call yourself a muslim, it is then by default that you adhere to its teachings. All its teachings. Taking what is 'okay' with you personally and leaving what is 'mo megteni3 feh' is NOT how it WORKS.
If you find something that you 'like' or think is 'more civilised' from outside the paradigm of il islam KNOWING that il islam refutes it, 3alaik ib alf 3afya, just as long as you don't try to impose your personal belief on something that was NEVER 'personal' in the first place.

33 Comments:

  • I think it’s not that simple temetwir.

    an example (not a generalization):

    When you examine muslims’ beliefs –especially ordinary people’s- you’ll find that most of their beliefs are received from interpretations by religious scholars (3ulama).

    Some scholars ‘adjusted’ their faith in Islam according to personal factors (their social, political, historical, regional or economic status).

    So when a Muslim has received ‘portions’ of his/her faith in Islam, from such scholars then..

    He/she believes in an ‘adjusted’ form of Islam.

    So how can he/she found out the un-adjusted truth, when he/she doesn’t posses the ‘required knowledge’ (3ilm) for that?

    By Blogger iDip, at 31.1.06  

  • Meno ba6 baLoontik?
    Heh, this post is addressed to the wrong people (I hope!) and using the wrong language :p

    Deen eL wa7ed baina Oo bain rabba, bas mo yfaser el deen 3ala mazaja!

    I was talking to an American on the subject of religion; He said "You know what? If you take some from this religion and some from that, then mix them all, it would be the best religion!"
    I instantly replied "No. That would be your religion. Islam is perfect, just like all religions. The difference is that it was untampered with.".

    This is not a Kuwaiti thing, not an Arabic thing; I think it's world wide! But it's more visible here since we're too attached to both, our religion & customs (unlike Americans, where they put customs above religion, if there was a religion!).

    By Blogger MBH, at 31.1.06  

  • One reason why I hate religion is that it's never clear. I sometimes go as far as to suspect whether it's correct or not. I do feel good when I abide the rules, feel good with myself because I know this is what God wants me to do, and when I do it, I just feel so good because I know Allah chethi eb yertha 3aley. But some things are not explained. I don't like the idea of Heaven. I think Allah will understand this. Rivers of honey, wine, lots of food, good weather, beautiful sights, and beautiful virgins? And then what? That's what *men* get. But us women, what do we get? Become one of them virgins? I don't think so.
    Another thing is, people have been twisting rules since the day el rasool -3alaih o aalah el salam- passed away. And they will keep twisting and playing around with rules until we all drop dead.
    My 'personal' rule is to do what instinct says is right. As long as I know Allah yabi chethy, I'll do it. If I doubt it, I can either ask or not do it lain aqteni3 fee. How bad is that? Isn't it better than doing something o ana mo meqtan3a fee? Aren't a3maal bil niyyaat?
    Religion as you said is NOT a personal thingie. FOLLOWING religion's rules is purely personal. At the end of the day, God will judge us all and punish whoever deserves it, reward who doesn't.

    Question: If we belive that God is just and fair, as one of his names is el 3adil, how can we believe that he gives men more rights than women? Isn't that UNfair? Isn't giving one person a bigger share than the other called injustice? So it's either that God is, asta`3f allah, unfair, OR narcissistic arse-headed people played with the rules and gave us the false fabricated hadeeths and quran intrepetations. Just like someone came up with a 7adeeth about eating some kind of fruit, caliming that our prophet said hatha min faakihat el janna. Turns out that the guy didnt want his fruit to rot. I don't know, was it raggi wala 3anab? Will have to look for that one. And there's the one about 9alat el mitzawij a7san eb madri cham marra min 9alat el a3zab. That one's made up, too. It was justified with a lame excuse: men were not getting married. I hate to go deep into religion, because the more I do, the more I find that it's messed up. Mostly by people who give us the 'right' intrepetations. As long as I have a brain, I can intrepet whatever I want the way i want. i don't need anyone to do the 'task' for me.
    Am I a horrible muslim, a disgrace to Islam? At least I admit that I am a muslim, a very bad one maybe, but *am* afterall a muslim, working on being a better muslim.

    Better shut up now .. yapped enough to bore you out of your skin

    Sorry

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 31.1.06  

  • During my very first days in the university, a representative from a well known election faction approached me with the question, "Do you pray?", casually asked. I was shocked, then indignant, then quite irritated. What irked me was what was implied, not that it invaded my privacy.

    A while ago, someone was just as indignant as being approached with the same question, spouting a rant of how faith was private etc etc. Commentators flocked to nod vigorously. The sentiment that "My faith is MY business, even if I don't have any in the first place," seemed prevelant.

    It's sad, really.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 31.1.06  

  • idip
    hala wala, first of all:
    "al ekhtelaaf bel raay la yufsid bel wid gatheya"
    o thany shay "fagid elshay' la yo36eeh"

    what i mean is: the subtle difference in il A7KAAM shay .. laken lama netkalam kelna bel thawaabet wel MOSALAMAAT il eslameya (the ideals), then its a totally diff matter, and i do hope sincerely u agree

    athreblek methaal basee6.. mathalan: some1 would say 'if god gave me pleasure, then surely he wants me to use it' in referrence to having premarital sex, or drinking, or whatever (?)
    "since it is there, then surely it is a gift" .. i mean come on?

    another example, the call for EQUITY in inheritence between man and woman and that it is "primitive" and should be "more modernised" in that it is an example of discrimantion .. do u see what i mean?

    or another VERY TOUCHY subject: el 7ejaab for women

    u speak of il 3olamaa', is there ONE that would defy ANY of the above (as very very simple and straightforward examples) despite their differences?

    that, kind sir, is what i mean in this post..
    individualistic opinion and doubt

    MBH when i discuss any matter here, it is not necessarily a 'reaction' .. so this was just something i thought of and tried to make clear, theres no 1-to-1 relation with an event BUT i did specify muslims becoz it is what i know

    anyway, u say "deen elwa7ed baina o bain rabba" .. o sebag eny thekarrt in the post that "true, each one is accountable to himself"

    for example, el saddaga .. hathy ma feha 3allan ba3ad.. laken nafreth enek sheft wa7ed mn rab3ek ga3ed yertha3 went bel shalaaih o saarat 7azzat el salaat

    would u not tell him ya eflan khaaf rabik o gom ad farthek?
    is THAT "invasion of privacy"?
    if so, o 7abbakat ma yat el privacy ela ehni, then fuck privacy en raddat lel sij

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 31.1.06  

  • scarlo
    religion is having faith.. thats what el eemaan b allah purely is
    tash'hideen ena la elah ela hoo o takhlisseen lah el deen

    by all means, if u want to dedicate ur time and effort into something other than making Allah "happy" 3ala goltech, then go ahead.. let me know what that is btw im very interested to know

    anyway, what do u mean "thats what men get" .. yoba, anyone who thinks he's getting in heaven just so he can get allll drunk and get laid (Astaghferralla ya rabi) has the wrong idea

    ur trying to picture this as a reward for men, o esme7eely ma3a kel e7teraamy lech laken i wont get into a very silly discussion.. all i have to say about heaven is that it has:
    ma lamm tarrahu 3ayn, ma lamm tasma3 behy othun, wa ma lam yakh6or 3ala galbe bashar

    and ur sitting here trying to tell me that u think of heaven as a place where theres a couple of rivers, trees, couches, and beautiful beings? :)

    moreover, the whole thing abt "il mathaaheb" is an easy way out, like i made it clear to iDip,, let's talk in the ideals, mosalamaat el deen el islamy that distinguish it

    finally, the same old rant about "how islam is unfair to women".. u have to understand ina saying that would entail "takleef akthar" 3ala el rayaal.. which isnt the case

    allah sob7ana khalag o farag, he created males and females, o lelaah fi khalgehe she'oon

    whoever said that they SHOULD be equal? what, the 20th century? :) okay then, if they should be identical.. fasreely ballah why did god "prevent" men from having the ability to get pregnant

    ridiculous? its just as ridiculous as someone thinking that men n women gasssseb the same o gasssseb islam is unfair .. staghferralla el3aly el3atheem bas allah yhadeekom enshala

    thats the thing, just becoz u LIKE something that is outside of il islam, ma ya3ny ella ella b ta7shireena, etha enty "muslima", mo eemanech yegolech ena el islam khaatam el adyaan o a3dalha? sh malah etshakikeen, o tekfain B SHENO, b something a human came up with to shape a diff form of society that happens to defy what il islam says?

    sapphire im sorry, can u expand on ur thoughts?
    ur right, why did he ask "DO YOU pray" .. that has nothing to do with il salaat, nor what il salaat is abt nor what il mosaleen do

    again, care to expand lena i didnt quite get ur overall sentiment

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 31.1.06  

  • Aah that will teach me to post a comment on an empty stomache! I don't like writing long replies, since I end up confusing myself and others. I was trying to point out that it seems those who promote the "my religion/faith is a personal and private matter" do so as a defensive stance. "Baini o bain rabbi" seems to be a popular reply taken by those who don't want to feel guilty about adhering to their faith. Then again, that's my take on it :)

    And the "Do you pray?" question at that time came out of no where o.O I didn't even know that person beyond first name basis.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 31.1.06  

  • Sapphire
    ah yes got ya now.. i think so too

    moreover, u and i have every single 'right' to continue thinking so unless someone proves otherwise

    as u say, it does seem kinda on the defensive (i.e. yerag3oon 7ag ro7hom what they do) and also a 'way out' for 'accepting' or let us say 'adopting' other ideals from other places (open-mindedness? modernity? civility?)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 31.1.06  

  • Temetwir,
    Actually, none of my friends "breast feed" :p
    But in case of such situations, regardless of what s/he is doing, as long as it's wrong I'll be asking them to quit it. (7etta law mo waqt 9alat).

    By Blogger MBH, at 31.1.06  

  • bravo..

    By Blogger the11thmuse, at 31.1.06  

  • 'That's what men get', by that I mean that's what all the sacred texts say about the reward for men, getting drunk and laid and whatever it is. I think the idea of being in a place where I can ge all I want is super-boring. That's why I don't really believe in having LOTS of houses in heaven and all that. I mean yeah you get a reward for doing this and that, but why do they name the reward? A river, a house, a garden, who cares anyways? I like to believe that each one gets his own heaven with all he ever dreamed of. Mine will be getting answers dircetly from the One that knows, not arguing with people.

    I did not say that Islam is unfair for women. I am saying that *muslims* are unfair to their religion, themselves, and other muslims. A huge-bellied, stinky-brearded sick dude would go around and tell you and me and other people to do this and do that, just because he thinks that he has a right to intrepet verses and texts.

    I did NOT say that heaven's trees and rivers and couches. I said this is what we are told at schools, what we read in books, and what we are reminded of every now and then.

    Men and women are not equal, since as I just said they're 'men' and 'women'. But that does not mean one should dominate and the other should obey.

    Many religious figures, my dear, are anything but religious. I still remember an islamiyya teacher who took my paper and put it in front of her cousin or whatever, same tribe or some other crap of that sort, and let her get the answers from my paper. While they keep repeating that cheating's bad and a big no-no. When people who should be an example for 'commoners' like you and I are not following what they say, how do you expect me to do what is said?

    Having beliefs that do not contradict with Islam does not mean that you're going to rot in hell. And please, if I think that Islam is unfair, I wouldn't be wasting thoughts and manpower and 'exhausting' my fingers by typing a comment. It is fair. We are not. And because we are not, I for one do not know whether *this* is made up or not.

    Sorry again. For being snippy, that is.

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 31.1.06  

  • MBH ma3rouf 3anik ;p

    11thmuse chairz lav

    scarlo
    - its not what 'men' get .. besides i was being sarcastic when i said 'get drunk and laid' .. astaghferalla ya rabi i cant believe im talking abt IL FERDOUS in that manner, el7amdelah welsheker

    - u did imply that islam is unfair to women, but since now u state that u do not, 7agich 3alay and i will take ur word for it

    - now, about the 'huge-bellied' whatever blah blah blah .. that thing is taken care of in my sect (being a shee3i muslim) o alf el7amdelelaah wel shekir ma 3endi iltebaas aw shubhaa aw ayyen kaan since all the sources (provided by el 3olama' who dedicate their lives) are put together wusoolan ela elrasol ssallah allah 3laih o aaleh aw a7ad el a'emma wa ma shaabah

    but that is beside the point since ur talking abt something else.. tell me what THEY (bearded guys 3ala goltech) say .. and we'll see etha 3endehom salfa wela la (bearing in mind that i have many many differences weyahom - but like i say ako MOSALAMAAT)

    - ur kidding me right, modarisat eslaameya khalas saarat qedwa lech? and ur doubting if il islam is tampered with lena khalat wa7da mn gabeelat'ha tangel mn ewregtich?
    or.. takhtheen a7kaamich from an islamist politician who shields himself in the name of religion, just as another prick shields himself in the name of liberalism?

    - u say "Having beliefs that do not contradict with Islam does not mean that you're going to rot in hell"

    anyway, tell me LITERALLY what u want to discuss nxt time lena ur kinda trippin'

    3ala fikra, u make it sound as if u should sit and let ur faith come to u .. yoba el wa7ed lazem ohwa ely yetla7la7 o yogdem mn nfsah ye6eli3, yeshof o yegra o yestaw3eb hal 7okom mn wain yah o 3ala ay asaas

    o tara entaw wayed emsaween salfa 3ala "islam has been tampered with" .. kelman yadry b "wath3 il a7adeeth" laaken all it takes is to check

    wela 3ayzaneen bs habaabkom i6yaara 3ala "animal rights" o "la 7aram naakel deyaay, oh my god the chickens r slaughtered with a knife"

    get real

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 31.1.06  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 31.1.06  

  • The Prophet (pbuh&his household) said, "Eb7ath 3an deenak 7ata yoqal 3anka majnoon"

    As a born Sunni al7amdila i researched my religion and sect very carefully for 2 years and i came to the conclusion to convert to a different sect that of being a Shiite for nearly 12 years now. Mind you I'm not saying this sect is better then that but lets just say the questions that roamed in my head were finally answered and i found what was i looking for.

    What I'm trying to say is i didn't sit and complain why is Islam that or this, if one feels lost or uncertain then by all means search and learn it's better then just criticizing something that is beyond your understanding.

    As a woman i say to those who say Islam is unfair to women it's entirely not true, sadly most people came to this conclusion because they observed some Muslims on how bad they mistreat their women, Islam gave women their rights and highly respected her, again i say one must search to know the truth.

    I'm not a very religious person al7amilda i know what's 7alal and 7aram, i try to follow my faith teachings the best way i could then again I'm not perfect and I'm human after all, i agree with temetwir religion is not a personal thing.

    Sorry for posting as an anon sadly switching to another sect one must be in hiding or hell would break loose, i think you see why :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 31.1.06  

  • Tem- "religion is personal" is a western ideology and the result of centuries of "modifying" christianity to fit the lives of people.
    People in the west adjust religion to their lives, they do not adjust their lives to their religion.

    That is the #1, and most important difference between us and 'them..'

    Islam is not a religion, it is a way of life

    fee iman illah

    By Blogger Faith, at 31.1.06  

  • anonymous
    e x a c t l y
    u struck on a lot of very important points..
    i think everyone should read ur comment, everyone

    however, one thing thu, ur converting (from seniya to she3iya OR the other way round OR otherwise) should not mean u "hide" or anything.. dont think that way

    laialy
    again, exactly u speak of what im calling "il mosalamaat"
    and about the things that r "vague", i think we can all agree that no one is born faahim el denya, hence: look it up and it WILLLLLL become clearer

    faith
    ur right, i think the "religion is personal" idea comes from the fact that western societies (post WW2) adopted the whole freedom of religion and practice concept.. and now we have the same pathetic idea roaming and being called for IRONICALLY in a defensive manner ONLY from those who r adopting the things FROM the "WEST" which happens to go against islam (and btw they r muslims - or think so)

    abt the adjustment of religion in the west .. again i agree and i really cant see how anyone can deny that fact especially when it comes to christianity (hint for those unconvinced: Constantine)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 1.2.06  

  • yezak Allah khair :)

    By Blogger Ra-1, at 1.2.06  

  • Temetwir,

    I wrote a comment earlier but thought I'd better delete, as I realised that I don't know enough to talk about religion. I'm merely having my own opinions and thoughts just now (i know it sounds super-arsed)

    Just wanted to appologise for being snippy and sort of aggressive earlier.

    Reading the anonymous post, I must admit I felt sort of ashamed. Here is someone that converted to *my* sect and found the answers she needs, while I sit and complain and criticise things 'beyond my understanding'

    I still won't do things that I'm not convinced of, because that is hypocracy to me.
    And I still think that many religious figures -such as my 6th grade islameyya teacher- should be role models to others, but they do not, and that can be confusing. To me it was, at least.

    Thanks again for bearing with me and taking of ur time to reply. Sorry for making you nervous; I can sense that you broke a keyboard of two typing the past two responds. Sorry.

    And heaps of thanks, anon

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 1.2.06  

  • It's me again:

    Temetwir: Yes u r right i shouldn't nor my husband (who converted to Islam 6 years ago) hide what we are but coming from a well known family in Kuwait could be very hard to come out. This would change of course once we inshallah have kids because i want my children to be proud of who they are and not hide anything.

    Scarlo: For me i hated the feeling of being lost and confused i know that school doesn't teach us in depth about our religion and as you grow up you begin to ask a lot of questions, that's why i decided to researched and interview a lot of people from different sects. Now i could say I'm at peace because i filled the missing pieces in my life al7amdila.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1.2.06  

  • anon,

    don't know whether I'm to thank you or congratulate you. Both, I guess. I sort of 'indulged' into religion about two years ago, it felt so good, amazing, indescribable, and I still wish I could get that feeling again. But now I see myself away from that feeling, and instead of going back to it, I stupidly try to make up excuses and justify my situation.

    I'm waiting to reach my boiling point, I guess. Then i'll be able to see things from a different perspective, permenantly.
    bloody hell, reading my previous post I see total contradiction.
    *sigh* I guess it's just the season's spirit ..

    Thanks a lot temetwir & anonymous. Can't thank you enough.

    And Temetwir, sorry for turning your blog into a forum :-) Thanks and sorry again

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 1.2.06  

  • Ok, what ive understood is that some people 'yf9loon' religion 3la kaifhum oo 3la mazajhum, i do really agree with u and that Islam is not a personal matter especially when someone close and near to me is violating some of the teachings we should offer some advice and if they didn't accept its up to them, and here is the part what makes me think about whether Islam is a personal or not a personal thing, after all if someone choses to commit sins its between them and Allah, while on the other side I think of what u said about al-amr bil ma3roof wa alnahy 3an almonkar..... I do agree with idip its not that simple :) y36eek il3afya 3la il-post

    By Blogger متفرغ, at 1.2.06  

  • Temetwir, as usual I have some questions...

    Do you see a difference between Belief & Religion?
    Yes or No.

    If Yes... I want to ask also one question.

    Don`t you find that Belief is an intimate thing?
    (religion is not intimate at all, but I don`t speak about it now)

    Thank you.

    I like how you tell about "teaching" & so on.
    Feel sorry for myself that you don`t speak English all the time.
    Ok ok :)

    By Blogger Sever, at 1.2.06  

  • hibba
    please keep in mind that i am restricting this to ISLAM.. u do agree that "islam isnt a personal thing", and then go on to discuss RELIGION being a matter of opinion.. two completely different things

    i know exactly what u mean, however i insist on this post not discussing FAITH or whatever.. it is only abt MUSLIMS, or those who say "i am a muslim BUT .. blah blah blah"

    what u speak of is "freedom of faith", something which, yes, is up to them in this day and time .. o 7esaabhom 3end rabi il 3alimeen

    i MUST insist and im sure that no matter how strongly i stress on this point someone else will bring it up: THIS POST IS ABOUT IL ISLAM WEL MUSLIMEEN so plz guys spare me the drama discussing "which religion is right" or if some ppl want to argue that there is even something called "faith" or religion in the 1st place (totally irrelevant)

    *i do apologize for using 'religion' loosely previously and in the post, i am talking only abt el islam when i use it (enough already heh)

    ra-1 tislemeen mashkoora :)

    scarlo no need for apologies at all, it's nothing but a good-hearted discussion

    - admitting to not knowing certain things is the first step to actually go and look them up .. of course, ma a3teged ay wa7ed or wa7da feena ehni claims he or she knows EVERYTHING about islam .. so of course it is a forever-going matter for the majority of us

    - ur 6th grade teacher is NOT a 'religious figure' at all .. she is merely a teacher .. come to think of it, u should KNOW that already being a shee3iya (that not anyone yesla7 "imam" masyed, or "shaikh" or whatever .. unlike ekhwaanna elsinna who r pretty much lenient when in comparisson to us) so again UR TEACHER IS NOT A RELIGIOUS FIGURE

    - i wasnt nervous or frustrarted or whatever u want to call it.. thats just me being me.. a bit rude probably, but never insulting i hope .. (btw ur NOT the only one - althu i MUST point out that its ALL females that tell me so)

    - nasee7a: start by going to e7saineyaat.. ppl think its abt "hitting" and all that nonesense .. ull be amazed at what u can learn.. just GO ma bagy shay 3ala mo7arram inshala

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 1.2.06  

  • Confusion started since school days. All this crap about shi3a/sinna stuff put me off. Have had enough arguments with people and tried to learn as much as possible in order to have some 'weapons' to use during one of them fights. And believe me, it's nastier when it's between us girls cos they keep bringing up marriage issues and pick their words carefully they leave you tongue-tied and it hurts.

    My teacher is not a religious figure, okay, but she should be an example for us, her students. Do I have to live in a She3i society in order to have qualified people being teachers and stuff? And why do people keep saying "we are all muslims after all, there's no difference" ?

    I do go to 7sainiyat and it always does feel good when you go and listen, but you leave and you start thinking and you sort of forget, but then you go there and you listen and sort of feel ashamed of yourself for having doubts (you here is I)

    Oh, and I don't believe in the hitting thing. It does give a good beat to the poems they read, but I think the words of the poems are enough. Let's not start an argument abut a totally different subject, though. Yeah you were kind of 'rude' perhaps (no offence) and it's kind of scary, surely don't want to *see* you talk that way.

    No appologies..? mkay, thanks again then.

    Oh, and you've been tagged (sorry, bas 3ashan a6alli3 7arriti) check my blog

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 1.2.06  

  • anonymous i understand, o allah yarzegkom bel thureya el sal7a ..

    i would hope im not the only one here who's interested in knowing how ur husband converted to islam and 'why' he did it .. if its not that much of a personal issue, i personally would love to read on that

    scarlo again ur most welcome and like i say malah da3y tet3atherain, we're all a happy bunch here heh

    anyway, kent bagolich shaghla waayed mohema: dont ever judge ur faith based on OTHERS' ACTIONS

    like, even if ur teacher OR even a "very renowned" 3aalim in islam or whatever.. which is pretty much the point: ISLAM IS NOT PERSONAL

    its much much bigger than that, i think faith said it explicitly: a way of life

    judge it from ITS core, not its representation

    of course, how to do that IS searching and researching (not the internet of course) o betlageen kelshay .. ely e3refaw gablech ma efregaw 3anech walahom a7san menich :)

    متفرغ
    i think i know what ur saying, and first of all i must point out that what il shaab il la6eef idip said was completely different

    however i think my reply to idip is applicable here too.. shof 7abebi, ako farg bain el wa7ed lama YAFTY 3ala kaifa, o lama elwa7ed YANGEL LEK AN IDEAL bel islam

    methaal absa6 menah mako .. just a couple of weeks ago, in egypt i think it was .. the whole thing abt married couples "7aram" have intercourse naked .. i mean hal shaghlaat hathy, kil hal tafahaat ghair

    laken fakkir ma3ay for a minute, imagine salfat el salat? el ssoum? el zina wel3eyath belaah? el 7ejaab? a7kaam el zawaaj? el 3elagaat bain el rajul el 'ajneby' wel bent el 'ajnebeya'?

    see my point metfarigh? i'm really not saying anything new nor am i discussing a philosophical dilemma .. its just pointing out the obvious :)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 1.2.06  

  • Sever
    belief and religion, the way i see it, are not the same thing .. no

    but yes, belief AND religion are BOTH an 'intimate' thing .. something that is close to one's heart

    again, i think u've missed out a lot of the points becoz they werent in english .. but this post really does ONLY concern islam and muslims .. i THINK i know what ur hinting at:
    "since belief and faith r intimate things, then surely they r personal and even more surely they are no one's business since in the end it is an opinion and making up ur mind towards something"

    yes, that is the case.. but like i say.. there are certain things in islam that r "ideals" .. undisputable

    think of it in respect to the TEN COMMANDMENTS in christianity for example

    OR the concept of the "holy trinity" in christianity (i think only a restricted number of sects, but u get the point)

    can u have a 'christian' doubting the trinity? or a christian doubting one of the 10 commandments?

    these r the ideals of a given faith .. i, personally, and as a muslim have problem with that .. but any christian can tell me to go to hell becoz its none of my business since its his 'personal belief'

    however if a christian doubted that, then surely another devout christian would tell him that 'disputing with this fact is not up to u, it is an ideal in our faith .. it is what MAKES our faith'

    and so is the case in islam - which is the main concern of this post :))

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 1.2.06  

  • scarlo
    didnt see u there (DAAAAAMN shkether ga3ed akteb!)

    - shee3a/sina discussions r boring .. history is another matter ;)

    - the point i was trying to make in regards of ur teacher mo ena u have to live in a shee3i society .. who said anything abt el shee3a being "better" in any way?
    anyway point is: forget it dont bother

    - u dont go there in the intent of listening, u go there in the intent of learning .. a lot like school actually

    - just checked ur blog and i did a v similar tag a few months ago, there u go (its messed up i know, just scroll down ull see it)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 1.2.06  

  • Just read it. Interesting :-)

    Thanks again, and yeah it is messed up.
    French's horrible.

    And to hell with my teacher. She never liked me anyways, doesn't deserve me to remember her hal kethir. I was just using her as an example to show how people who are supposed to be religious are actually not. Turns out that religeon itself has nothing to do with these people; they hide under the name or religeon, thinking that it would give them a .. better look in society. Whatever. Forget it. Don't bother.

    Thank you, yet another time

    By Blogger ScarlO, at 1.2.06  

  • Temetwir, to say truth I did not want to prove something like "religion is a personal thing". No.
    Really I just took an interest in the answer for my question. It was interesting for me what YOU think. & nothing more...

    Also... I don`t think that religion is an intimate thing.

    & also about "but any christian can tell me to go to hell becoz its none of my business" & so on...
    It`s not me... I never will tell anything like this.

    "however if a christian doubted that, then surely another devout christian would tell him that 'disputing with this fact is not up to u, it is an ideal in our faith .. it is what MAKES our faith'"
    May be you are right... But again it`s not about me. For me everything is open to discuss. It`s a cause why I`m here. Ok, it`s the other long story.

    Thank you for your answer, Temetwir :)

    By Blogger Sever, at 1.2.06  

  • Me again

    Temetwir:

    It would be my pleasure to tell you about my husband, what I'm about to say might make people either cringe with disgust or be happy you'll know why.

    My husband was an American Jew in fact he was considered as a Cohen or high priest like a sayed because his linage goes back to Aaron brother to prophet Moses. He wasn't religious or anything only his parents were (orthodox Jews). Even when he was a teenagers he was a rebel and often disagreed with the teachings in Hebrew school, on halloween he dressing as an Arab (with besht and 3qal) and called himself Abdullah, the rabbi was so disgusted they kicked him out of school.

    In his early 30's he started reading about other religions and Islam was among them. I remember him telling me when he read the Quran his body shook and started crying, he said he found what he was looking for.

    Now here's the funny part on the day he decided to say the shahada he went to a local masyed where the imam was an egyptian guy and he told him his story. The imam was very pleased but before going into the shahada part the imam said, "Do you know anything about Shee3a? they are bad people and kuffar blah blah blah"

    After saying the shahada my husband became interested and wanted to know who or what are Shee3a so after reading and meeting a few people he chose this sect. Then a few years later i came into the picture i came to the US for school volunteered to working an Islamic center where he worked there too and now I'm honored to be this terrific man's wife :)

    Al7amdila my parents are open minded and they love him dearly, we visited Kuwait 3 times he loves it and even decided to live and raise our children there in the near future.

    Because he was a Jew my dad told me if anyone asked in Kuwait about what he was before I'd have to lie and say he was a Christian, my dad said a lot of people won't understand it because of the whole political thing which is a shame. Regardless if a person was a Jew, Buddhist, christian etc converting to Islam should be considered among Muslims one of the amazing things.

    Ever since he became a Muslim his parents disowned him and we have no contact at all, but the rest of his family (uncle, aunt and cousins) accepted me among them with open arms (with my faith and hejab) and i love then dearly, they even think his parents are crazy for being too extreme, it's amazing how Jews and Muslims are close when it comes to religion but sadly we love killing each other.

    The end :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1.2.06  

  • Right on Tem. great post :)

    By Blogger familiar_stranger, at 1.2.06  

  • scarlo :)

    sever most welcome, comrade hehe

    anonymous hahah ur husband is quite the character, showing up as an arab at a hebrew school + checking out what he was told was 'wrong' and kufaar
    gotta love that guy!
    cant blame the rabbi for kicking him out though.. seriously :P

    anyway, i personally wasnt aware of the 'problem' until u articulated it (that he USED to be a jew) .. but yeah thats just me

    im not sure i agree with ur dad, but id like to think i understand..
    anyway yeah im sure we ARE close in many more ways than not

    in the end, e3yaal 3amna tara :P
    anyway, hats off to ur hubby

    familiar stranger chairz ! :)

    By Blogger Temetwir, at 1.2.06  

  • the only way i can understand religion/faith being personal is in one sense: al7mdla aneh wa7da a3arf Rabbe, but the STRENGTH of my faith or how DEEP i delve into religion is my business alone. it's personal in that it's no one's business knowing what lengths i go to when it comes to religion. it's something bainee o bain Rabbee.. but in any sense other than that, or people who interpret religion 3ala kaifhom, i disagree 100%. Laish fee sheyokh o 3ulama o nas darseen? Aslan min mo3jezat el Quran is its language! It's not easy.. you need to study it to fully appreciate it and understand beyond what u read.

    as for anonymous's comments, wow. MashAllah.. barrak Allah feech o fee raylech o inshAllah Allah yarzegkom 3ala gad neyatkom! What an inspiring story. I always think those who LEARN and CHOOSE their religion, r so much better than those who merely inherit it without understanding it fully.

    Since Mo7arram has began, Ma2joreen..

    By Blogger MSB, at 1.2.06  

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